68 10 2332 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/897a8a6b9d27558127b637e796d41b12.mp3 8dd7f3775e550ab5172b56f46281aee1 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/9d42c6b4ea31e56f5c14949ff16a7388.mp3 1fe3e1bec633ce0bd24169cb3a1d759c https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/503f55664c404545d43f197c019828c7.pdf 274e5f886907ac6ab9addd375b9a53a4 PDF Text Text Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 1 INTERVIEW BY BOB HULT July 22, 2004 MB - Mildred Betts HB - Howard Betts This is Bob Hult and today is Thursday July 22, 2004 and we’re in the Harris Park Community Center and I’m interviewing Mildred Betts and we’re going to be discussing her experiences here in Harris Park and in Colorado for that matter. So Mildred, where were you actually born? Mildred: Born in Littleton, Colorado and my dad built the house and the house is still standing – I can’t believe this after all these many years. In Littleton. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Oh my gosh. Mildred: South Sheridan and Coal Mine Road. Now had your parents been from someplace else, or had they been Colorado natives also. Mildred: Well, they’re Colorado natives also. We have a pioneer license because my parents came here when my dad was only twelve years old, so he’s been here along time. He passed away a good number of years ago, but we found Harris Park through some friends of ours as a (inaudible) in Lakewood. We stayed overnight with them over here in the corner; we liked the area so well that we decided to buy the corner lot just south of it. Now what year was that? Mildred: That was ’64. You bought the lot in 1964. Okay and you had been living in Littleton up to that point in time? Mildred: No, we lived in Lakewood. Oh, Lakewood, okay. That’s right, you had moved several places all in Colorado because you are a true Colorado native. Never lived any place outside of the state. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Huh! I just got curious – your grandparents - where did they come from? Mildred: They also come from Kansas and they lived in Loveland when my Mother died in Loveland, I lived with them and went to school. Okay. Mildred: Grade school, high school. Okay, so you grew up in Loveland then to a large degree. Mildred: Yes. I think you said you were eight years old at the time your mother passed away? Mildred: Yes, mm-hmm. Okay, so your grandparents came from Kansas and so every generation since then has been here in Colorado. Mildred: That’s right. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 2 Interesting, okay. So you came here in ‘64 – what brought you here? You just liked the area or was there something specific? Mildred: A friend of ours invited us to come up and stay overnight and he lived just north of where we built. Okay, in Harris Park? Mildred: Uh-huh, right there in same area. Well, I can imagine that Harris Park was quite a bit different than it is today. Mildred: Oh yes, uh-uh. There’s only about six families that lived here the year ‘round and I thought, “Well, this is an ideal spot.” Well, it grew - I don’t know how many homes have been built in the last year, which is an awful lot of them been built and the mail - -I talked to the mail carrier one day and said, “Well, there’s six families lived here at one time but now I’m delivering two hundred families of mail,” and it’s been more than that now. This has been several years ago, two hundred families, so there’s a lot of people that’s moved in, built. Absolutely. Now you have a lot of history on Harris Park since you’ve gotten involved with being here for that length of time. You apparently have done a lot of research and talked to people who’ve been here for a longer period than even yourself. What was the origin of Harris Park? Mildred: Well, there’s a group from Florida come up here and bought it all, I don’t know how many acres, my husband could tell you more of that ‘cause he done the roads up here for nineteen years. He knows every corner of the place. Okay. Mildred: Was on house - - put on the Board in 1975 as Recreation Chairman and thoroughly enjoyed it. I talked to several people that had lived up here for years and they told me a lot of stories of even about President Truman coming in here by buggy and horse and buggy and had his still up here on the hill, but whether that’s true or not, I couldn’t tell you. Okay. Mildred: Just news (inaudible) had been Mabel Smith, who was an old-timer and she’s since passed away but my husband, he’s retired Lakewood fireman and we just built a cabin up here to come on weekends and we liked it so well we decided to move up here for a time, so we sold out in Lakewood and moved up here. We moved in 1977. We come up on weekends or days he was off. What year was your cabin built? Mildred: 1967, ‘68? So several years after you bought the property. Mildred: Mm-hmm, yeah we just…didn't have water or anything up here. We just come and camped out more or less until we got the house built with a lot of good help from the firemen we got the house built and decided to move in. So it’s a real community up here of people. Mildred: Mm-hmm. Was there actually a Mr. Harris that this name came from? Mildred: Yes there was and I have a lot of information here about Mr. Harris. Oh, okay. Mildred: And I’ll give that to you – you can fill out what you want of it., but he was State Warden in ?Sparobourey’s? rifle in Colorado so this is with - - his niece, Ann, what was her name - - Ann Harris? Let’s see – she’s from Jonestown, Pennsylvania and I had her name here (looking Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 3 through a scrapbook or clippings). Well anyhow, she stopped in to see where the cemetery was up here, I was out in the yard working and I said, “Well, there’s no cemetery as such, but I’ll show you where Mr. Harris was buried,” and she says, “Well, Mr. Harris was my great grand-uncle and I thought maybe I’d like to see where he’s buried,” so she saw the grave. Well, then when she went home, she sent me all this information about her uncle. He started this property or he bought the development for personal… Mildred: Mm-hmm, he had 200 acres here and he had raised deer for his friends to come in and shoot deer. Ah, okay, so it was a hunting camp. Mildred: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mildred: He built a big house up here and it’s still standing. The fellow that owned the house just passed away this last year – Holland - Mr. Holland – John Holland. Okay. Mildred: He bought the property and had it for years. Right, and that was actually built by this Mr. Charles Harris. Mildred: Mm-hmm, yes it was. Do you know what year he actually built that house? Mildred: No, I sure - - it probably got the information in there. Okay, yeah, I can go through this and see. So he started this as a hunting camp and when did it actually become a community? Did he start selling off lots that people then could build individual homes? Mildred: It was in the late fifties; ’57 I think was - - we have a little shed back here, it’s got a date on it. It used to be the community sales place you know, where they could come in and buy lots so - - and it’s all divided up into lots and … We sure enjoy it up here, I’ll tell you. And this map back her eon the wall; that is the way the lots were all broken up? Mildred: Uh-huh. (affirmative) So that’s when it was sub-divided in the 1950s? Mildred: I have a map here that shows you how it has increased in size and the homes that have been built. Wow! So how many homes are up here now would you say? Mildred: Well, my husband and I used to do the newsletter; we had to come home early from vacation time, which irritated me to get the newsletter out to 2,000 people then and there’s many more now. The original Mr. Harris, wasn’t the one that actually did the subdivision. Did it pass down through his family? Mildred: No, I don’t think so. The group from Florida come in and bought it and then they since sold out – the people that already bought the homes then had to form a club or chairman to try to get more people interested, so they bought them out and we had a big lawsuit and everything. All this history’s in this (presumably pointing to a scrapbook or clippings). I can’t understand why they had so many problems but they had to buy it back from the lawsuit. Interesting. So I was just trying to understand this myself - Harris originally bought the land and then did he have – and I can read some of this material, but I just wanted to capture as much as I can on tape from your understanding - - good morning! Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 4 Mildred: This is my husband, Howard. Howard: Good morning sir, how are you? Very good. We’re just taping right now, discussing some of the history of Harris Park. Howard: (inaudible) Mr. Harris bought the property originally and then you say a Florida group had bought it from him? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative) That’s the way you understand Florida. Florida come in and bought it from Mr. Harris. Howard: Yeah, what’s the name of that outfit? Mildred: I’ve forgotten the name of it. Okay, and they bought it specifically to turn into a residential community or did they want to keep it as a hunting reserve? Howard: It’s hard telling. I think they wanted it as a more of a bedroom community or a vacation community. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). They were the ones that originally subdivided the community? Howard: As far as I understand. Okay. Howard: And that’s why they did it wrong. See, everything up here is wrong because the streets are too narrow and nothing has ever been accepted by the County. Right. Howard: So the County won’t come in here and be on this ?oil? road here and do anything. Right. I came up on Shelton Road off of 43; it’s in terrible condition. Mildred: Mm-hmm. And I guess it’s always been that way, so… Howard: Yeah. They are cooperating with community pretty good; the County is by doing a little grader work and kind of and helping in some ways, but it’s not near like it ought to be. And that goes back to the fact that the original sub-divider, this Florida group, just didn't do the roads property in the first place? Mildred: That’s right. Howard: Well, they did it according to the times, see that was way back in ’54 or something I think, wasn’t it? What time frame was that? Mildred: Yeah, ’54, ’55. Howard: They subdivided this and as far as we know, the County accepted it as a subdivision and yet they won’t take responsibility of the road because the roads aren’t wide enough and all this to go by the standards now. So is the property on both sides, it encroaches on what would be the road? Howard: Yeah. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 5 So they’d have to get new dedicated roadbeds and that would be really difficult I suppose. So this remained private property, this Harris group, until - - or Harris individual or family at least – until the early 1950s, is Mildred: I think so. That’s when they started selling the (inaudible) sold out in ‘50s. They sold out in the fifties. When do you think they bought it? Do you have any idea when that was actually purchased. Mildred: I sure don’t. Okay. Howard: I don’t know, didn't this subdivision start in about ’54? Mildred: Yeah, but Florida didn’t have it then, did they? Howard: Oh yeah, they had it to start with and that was this little shed out here was their sales building. Right, okay. Howard: At the time. Mildred: It probably is then. Howard: And when they - - I really don’t know how …it got transferred from them to whatever. I don’t know, maybe in the file someplace it might say something , but… I imagine down in Fairplay there’s a record of when they acquired the property from the Harris family or whoever at that point in time owned this immediate vicinity. Mildred: Mm-hmm. (affirmative) Because a lot of national Forest is just adjacent, just north of here. Mildred: That’s right. So this has been private for a very long time. Howard: See, about the time of the change from this real estate outfit sold to whoever they did, either or did what they did now or something, is when some kid or somebody got kicked by a horse and there was a lawsuit and against the community here and I guess they had to finally pay off to get something clear. Mildred: They did. Howard: I don’t know, so the answer there is too legal for me I guess. It’s kind of fuzzy. Mildred: Yeah. So then this - - it was turned over or sold to, from the Florida group, to individual owners then of individual lots? Mildred: yeah, the people that hat had already bought the property started up the group. Oh. Mildred: I read that somewhere in the history way back. Okay, and then it’s been that way since. Is it an incorporated city or is it just a group of individual owners with - - I mean, the Harris Park name is just something they‘ve assumed? Howard: (inaudible). Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 6 And it’s like Deer Creek Valley Ranchos; it’s an area outside of the incorporation of Bailey. It’s not a legal entity in the sense that it’s you know, a city or a town or anything like that. Mildred: They said this is the first development … Howard: Just a part of Park County, is about all it amounts to. That and it’s in the Platte Canyon Park Collection District and they also have a water and sewer district up here – Harris Park water and sewer. So you have your own. Howard: That’s one of the reasons that that was - - I think when we first ever came up here, there used to be piles of pipe, different places like they were going to put in sewer and all this. Right. Howard: And then of course it all just disappeared that (inaudible) looks that had people buy property I think, so… Mildred: Dreams. And that was in the sixties, early sixties when you saw the pipe here. Howard: Yeah, that was … Okay. Howard: And then of course, none of that ever happened and water and sewer, neither one of them was - - as far as the water goes, they got a well out here that they use for the whole community and … Mildred: They have three lakes they take care of. Howard: No sewer or anything at all. There’s no individual wells then. Howard: It’s all individual. Mildred: All individual. Oh, it is individual. So you don’t have central water. Howard: No. But you do have a central sewer system, or do you have septic tanks? Mildred: Septic tanks. Your own individual septic, okay. Howard: Yeah, there’s no central units of any kind. This little well that’s out here, you have to drive in and fill your water containers and drive out. The people that do that, they need it because they don’t their own well. Mildred: Right. Howard: When it first started, nobody had wells too much up here; this was just a cabin up here. An old cabin to get away from things and you had a place to get water and you’d build an outhouse and that was it! And that was the sixties. Howard: Yeah. It isn’t that long ago. That’s interesting. Was the well a pump-type or was it electric or what? Howard: This one out here? Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 7 Mildred: No, the community well. Howard: It’s electric. It’s electric, okay. Howard: Yeah, that’s just like a whole well, it’s got the spigot up out of the ground and when you shut off of course, the water drains down so it won’t freeze. That’s the only thing they have as far as the water and sewer department goes, but they do keep up the lakes. We got this pond out here and then we got lake number one and two that they keep up. I don’t know when those lakes was put in. These’s both man-made. Okay, so their not natural, they were actually created. Do you know who made them or what the purpose was or was it probably for a fishing pond? Mildred: Just for fishing. Howard: Well, more for fishing than anything else. Okay, so they would stock them. Are they deep enough that they won’t freeze in winter? Howard: Oh yeah. Yeah, they’re oh, anywhere from twelve to twenty feet deep. Okay, so you could keep fish in there year-round and it wouldn’t freeze them. Howard: Yeah, they do ice-fishing up here once and awhile, too. But you don’t have any idea when those or who actually dug those lakes out. Mildred: (inaudible) some of the history that they was going to throw away so I’ll have to dig those out for you. BH Okay, I was just kind of curious to see if we could get an understanding of where these things all came from. Who actually dug the well, the original well. Do you know who dug that? Mildred: Property owners probably, the ones who took over when the (inaudible) quit; probably built the wells, don’t you think? Just like putting in the fireplace, just the names of all of the people up there that built the fireplace. Oh! When was this community center built, do you know? Howard: Oh boy, we had some --Mildred: We moved in in ‘64 it was here. Howard: Someplace. So this could go back to the fifties. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Howard: Oh yeah. Potentially. Howard: Yeah. See this floor, I understand is a good hardwood floor and it came out of the church that was demolished, so this place is kind of built on a volunteer basis and stuff. Mildred: This lady here (pointing) died at 102 years, she helped lay the floors in the community center and this is something I’ve done. Me and another lady, her daughter and I started with this (gesturing) everybody that passes away that’s lived up here and owned property, they get their name on the board. What was her name, the 102 --Mildred: What was her name? It’s been so long I’ve forgotten. Howard: Margie Adams. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 8 She was one of the people that (inaudible) for a real long time, probably from the beginning, so she might have been here in the early fifties. Interesting, okay. So you had your own fire department here also then originally. Howard: Yeah, on this hill over what building is now, of course that’s a brand new one there, but we built the other all on long-term basis. Everybody pitched in to help. Mildred: This is 1966, there’s pictures (presumably showing pictures to the interviewer). Howard: By material to build up our house were all donated. Mildred: It was community property where they put the firehouse up, wasn’t it? I think it was community property. Howard: Yeah, oh, I don’t know. Mildred: That’s our first equipment, our fire department equipment (looking at the photo album). A little red Jeep. It’s like a military Jeep? Mildred: And we hauled it up from… Howard: Yeah, we went to the Black Forest down by Colorado Springs. Oh, okay. Howard: Got one of the old Army Jeeps that was a 24-volt system on it. (laughter). Okay. Howard: We had it for awhile. Mildred: Pulled a trailer behind it, had a trailer. Well, you need that to get into some of these roads. It must be difficult in wintertime with some of these road, because if we get a good, that - - well, we had that snowstorm two years ago in March? We had five feet. That must have been unbelievable up here! Mildred: It was something. Howard: People leave a car at the bottom of the hill (inaudible) in the wintertime. Mildred: yeah, and walk up. That was the biggest snow we’d had in all the time we’ve lived up here. Howard: And of course, most everybody got a four-wheel drive anymore, so… Well, yeah I can understand that. SO you actually added equipment then as it became available as time went on. Looks like you had a little tank truck. Mildred: Mm-hmm That looks like a ‘40s period truck (looking at photos). Mildred: Yeah, this is our equipment that brought it up from the Black Forest. Okay. Oh yeah, you trailered it up; the Jeep and … Mildred: Even had the fire department auxiliary women that took part in Bailey Days. Everything up here is pretty much a community-based volunteer kind of thing. Mildred: Mm-hmm. And in a sense you’re kind of isolated because you’ve got all this Forest land around here and you’re basically at the end of 43. Mildred: What was really funny is my husband, the Lakewood fireman, they had some equipment to sell so that’s the first big fire truck we had. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 9 It’s a real truck! A real fire truck. Mildred: Yeah, mm-hmm. Do you have dues that pay for equipment like that and maintenance of the lakes and those kinds of things? How do you - - what - Mildred: A lot of it came from our bingo that we used to play bingo to get equipment. Really! Howard: We used to have pretty good crowds in here at bingo all the time when it was all volunteer but I don’t know, now, people just stay home I guess, I don’t know. Mildred: Watch television. They have satellite TV now, so… (laughter). What was it like when you first came here in the sixties. It was a smaller community for sure. How different was it then as it is now? What kids of changes did you see over the years? Mildred: A lot of people moving in and changing things. Howard: Bigger houses, more expensive houses. Mildred: Our house used to be the nicest looking one around and then they come in and start building $115,000, $200,000 homes. Yeah, this is mainly jus the fire equipment here that we… the new had Huck Finn, being recreation channel… Howard: When we first moved up here then the fire house was built; it was built on the idea that we didn't have any real close fire protection (inaudible) Bailey and that was… Crow Hill. Howard: And they were thirty minutes away with a fire truck coming up. Mildred: They didn’t even have it on Crow Hill, it was down in Bailey who had that… (inaudible) Oh really, the one in Crow Hill didn't even exist. Okay. Howard: We call it Harris Park Volunteer Fire Department; we built the fire house up here, not knowing that we’re within the Platte Canon Fire Protection District! So in later years and so on, then of course we worked together and then we donated the land to them. That’s why they built the new fire house over here and kind of merged with them and Harris Park kind of went by the wayside. Now it’s volunteer residents in the area that are basically with the fire department here? Howard: Yeah, everything’s volunteer – roads and everything else. Mildred: And the Fire Department. Right. Howard: We try to keep the roads up and stuff. Mildred: It’s a pretty nice-looking fire house actually. Absolutely! It’s a very good looking building. Mildred: I hate to see it go down, but then we knew we was going to get a better one. Well yeah, you’ve got a lot more equipment now, but prior to this being built, there was no fire protection other than what came out of Bailey? Mildred: That’s right. Did you have fires up here? Like forest fires I guess that would be the first question. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 10 Howard: No, we’d had some residential fires and different things to own (inaudible) gets a little fire in his back yard and neighbor complains about it, the Fire Department goes out and decides it is a dangerous situation and puts it out. Sure, sure. You never had any big fire s up though that you’re aware of, before the fire department got built? Howard: Yeah, I think so. They did? Howard: I think they did. I’m not too sure about the time before we got here, but that was one of the reasons here I think everybody got behind it to get a fire department going up here. How about emergency – was there a doctor living up here if you needed an emergency and somebody was having a severe problem, you just had to run in to - - where would you go? Howard: Well, I think there’s some EMTs that probably live fairly close and they’ve got their main outfit at the top of Crow Hill. Mildred: They do now, but when we came up they didn’t have much, that’s for sure. Howard: Oh no. Mildred: They didn’t have anything. Howard: There wasn’t anything. As a matter of fact, when we had a call here the lady from the ?graw? got on 285 by Longs’ Brothers. Mrs. Long and her husband had an ambulance there at Long Brother’s Garage and that building is still there. Oh yeah! Howard: They used to come up here. Howard: That was more or less our closest ambulance service at that time and I’m not sure when Platte Canyon Ambulance Service ort what ever they’re called now, I’m not sure when it started. And that was where the ambulance was kept. Okay. Now you had telephone service when you came up here in the sixties, right? Mildred: Right, out of Pine, Colorado. Out of Pine? Mildred: Mm-hmm. Not Pine Junction, but Pine. Mildred: Actually our mail and everything came out of Pine. We had a very different number and then it was all changed when they … Howard: We had a box number and… Out of Pine! Howard: All this stuff, yeah. They’d come out of Pine and then I don’t know, they closed that one at Pine I guess and it’s Pine Junction now. About that time I think, they changed over to Bailey, so we get service out of Bailey. Do you know when that period was or when that actually that changed occurred? Mildred: It was after we moved in, so it must have been ’75, ’74, ’75 I bet. Howard: Probably, something like that. Okay, interesting. I wonder why Pine? Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 11 Mildred: Yeah, that’s what we thought, too. It’s kind of - - my niece came from California and there was a “Betts” in Pine, Colorado. Well, he was the fire chief: B-E-T-Z. Ah, okay. Mildred: And that’s where she got mixed up, not knowing that we were in Bailey, but we had a Pine address. Yeah, absolutely. So when you moved here in ’64 - you actually bought the property in ‘64 – how many residents would you guess were actually living up here at that time? Mildred: We were told six the year ‘round. Just six. Mildred: Mm-hmm. It’s expanded. Just six. Year round, okay. Howard: Yeah, summertime, why… Mildred: Then a lot more come. Howard: That’s when the taverns would roll. That’s what this was originally set out for, just a cabin community to get away and fish and of course, this guy Harris, he kind of run a little ranch up here where big shots could come hunting and all this kind of stuff. Mildred: Yeah, I was telling him about that. Yeah, Deer Creek they actually raised deer so the hunters could come I guess from back East would come as this far and there looked like there hunting or fishing lodges along Deer Creek also that were kind of falling apart now, but I think that is what it was. This was considered a recreational area. Mildred: Mm-hmm. Howard: Yeah, we’ve heard different stories. There used to be a lumber mill up in here someplace too, but we’ve never seen any signs of it but some old-timers has told us that Bisgaard or somebody told us about that and some of the people here says, “Well, there used to be a whiskey still up here by that big rock,” and … Mildred: I was telling that too, about the history. Howard: I guess the stagecoach used to run pretty close to here, I think. Oh really! Well, I know it came up in the Deer Valley - - at least I was told it came up into Deer Valley. Now how far it came up, I don’t know, but I do know there was also a lot of logging at the turn of the century up this whole valley for Denver, basically. There’s no mining, or there wasn’t’ any indication of mining in this area, was there? Howard: No, the only mine is kind of a oh, what do they call- Littleton Rock Hounds or something – they got a little mine up here on the rock.. Mildred: Rock. Rock mine. Howard: Rock mine. I think they dig for these black rocks every - - they dig for something, I don’t know, but it’s just a small area and it’s all on top of the ground. Okay. There’s no commercial mining for silver or gold or anything like that. Mildred: Right. Just a club that comes in. Howard: I think the closest to that is probably up Hall Valley. Yeah, exactly. We’ve hiked up in there and you can see there’s some pretty significant mining at that time. Howard: Those old mines up there. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 12 Beautiful part of the country, too. Howard: It’s not too far right over that thing you get over into … Well, you get in towards Breckenridge, Dillon, Silverthorne, those areas. Howard: Yeah. You know, on the other side of Boreas Pass, but there are no minerals here that you are aware of at this point. Mildred: Mm-hmm (negative). Okay. Weather-wise, have you noticed any change in the weather patterns from when you moved here? Howard: Weather patterns? I mean, was it warmer, colder, wetter, drier? Howard: Oh yeah. We used to get snow up to here (gesturing); it’s been so long now, we get it down to here (gesturing) if we get that much. Mildred: We’s building up here, we had to park the car here at the community center and walk across because we couldn’t get into our place. It was a good three feet of snow then, but we haven’t seen too much snow really. Just that bad one last year, it was fierce. Howard: The thing that I notice and maybe that’s because a guy gets older or something, is the cold. We’ve had continued cold. Mildred: I know, twenty below even this last winter. Howard: Below zero up here quite a few times and it just don’t get the snow that we used to get. Mildred: A lot of cold though. Do you actually think it’s dryer, but actually colder? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s interesting, okay. My wife is involved with this ?CoCorouse? wich is kind of a study of moisture levels and temperatures throughout the state and it’s interesting – there’s certain pockets that get a lot more rain than others and they can only be a mile or two apart. Just amazing. Now I’ve noticed - - I can see this valley from our home and it looks like you’ve gotten a lot of rain. Mildred: Oh yes. Much more rain than what we’ve gotten and we’re only I would guess, as the crow flies, no more than three or four miles. Mildred: Yeah, mm-hmm. But I can look out my window and this area looks like it’s being hosed, so I don’t know, maybe we’re in a long-term cycle, I don’t know. Mildred: Yah, it’s sure been wet the last few months - - weeks. Howard: I think we’ve seen some cycles up here, too where some years will have more than others. Sure. Howard: And you go through a winter that just don’t seems like you have hardly any snow because you only got six inches or whatever, so then next winter you might get something that’s got a foot or two foot of snow. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 13 Mm-hmm, but you think you’ve gotten more snow back in those days, back n the sixties, than what we’re seeing here now? Mildred: Mm-hmm. Howard: Yeah, it’s changed altogether it seems like to me. Is there any other changes that you’ve seen in the years that you’ve been here. You’ve been here, you know, going on forty-some years. Have you seen any other changes? You mentioned that the homes have gotten larger; have the people, the nature of the people here, changed? Howard: Yeah, to me it’s more of big-city people moving in and they’re - - of course, we haven’t heard of too much or anything, but they’re wanting roads, they’re wanting police protection, they’re wanting all this stuff that they got down there. Mildred: Like they had in town. Sure, absolutely. Howard: And we don’t have it and when you got to wait thirty minutes for a deputy to show up, why, you know ,that don’t set right with them because they think they aught to be right next door to somebody. It doesn’t work that way up here. I mean, you don’t get both. I mean, you don’t have the city services when you live out in the country. Howard: I think the people there- traffic’s different, traffic is quadrupled from what it used to be. Mildred: Oh yeah. It used to be you go out to 285, you might run - - might be three or four cars you pass. Howard: They bring their city – driving with them, right on your tailgate when you go out, you know don’t abide by the speed limit, you know. Even this day within five miles it would be different, but you can go down the highway doing the speed limit and they pass you they’ll want more than that. Oh, absolutely. Howard: And they just don’t’ do that to pass you! After they pass you, then zoom! They’re one! Was 43 a paved when you moved out here? Mildred: No, it was all dirt road. It was a dirt road. Mildred: Mm-hmm. When was 43 actually paved then? Mildred: Well, let’s see, what did I say? End Side a Start Side b We were talking about changes up here,. Have there ever been stores or commercial buildings up here where you had you, know, lie ka food store or drug store? Mildred: Grocery store here now. Is there a grocery store here now? Howard: That’s commercial property. That’s the only commercial property in Harris Park.. Mildred: it used to be a lumber yard. We wanted to buy it at the time. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 14 Howard: It originally started as a lumber yard because people were doing a little building up here then it changed over to a store and changed hands quite a few times. Huh! Howard: It even had a gas tank and a pump up here at one time. Really! Howard: The guy that sold out, he decided he’d just have it taken out when he sold the place because, I don’t know what was involved Okay. Mildred: Environmentalists wanted him to take it out if I understand. Howard: Yah, he had a big problem in the late eighties, early nineties with those tanks that were rusting and leaking and especially it would affect the ground water, so yeah, a lot of tanks were replaced. So right now you have a food store? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). A little small, like a grocery store. Mildred: Grocery store, liquor store. Okay, got that. It’s all in one? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative) same people have - - and then just like these people really didn’t want to sell liquor, they’re good Christians you know, but that’s their business. They sell more liquor than they do groceries I think. Howard: I think when they bought the store. Of course, it’s a package deal where people take it out and take it home and do what they want. Okay, but you say originally the building itself was a lumber store. Mildred: Mm-hmm. Howard: It was a lumber yard. Mildred: What was the name of that lumber yard in Lakewood? There, he - Howard: Scatterday’s. Mildred: Scatterday. He was on the board with Mr. Scatterday and his folks is the one that owned the lumber yard. Do you have any idea when that got started? It was here before you came here? Mildred: Before we got here. I suppose in the late sixties. Howard: Yeah, that sold ‘case we’s talking about - weren’t we talking buying before we even bought lot over here. Mildred: Mm-hmm. They went up too much in their price so we told them to keep because it was too expensive. Howard: Yeah, they went up $500 and I…it was at that time. $500 was a lot of money. Well, exactly. It’s still not exactly small change, but… Mildred: Mm-hmm (negative). Okay, so were there any other stores up here in the history of this area? Mildred: (Mm-hmm (negative). Howard: No. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 15 Mildred: That was the only one. That’s pretty much it. Of course, having a grocery store, even a small one, would really be a big convenience because it’s a long haul if you want a real food store you have to go all the way to Conifer. Mildred: mm-hmm (affirmative). Howard: Yeah. This is more like a convenience store where you can go in… Mildred: You can get about most anything there though. Done real well, these people that have had it – good job. Now did you go into Bailey if you wanted more groceries, or did you go to Conifer? Mildred: Well, we had to go to town about once a week or every other week so we’d pick up groceries on the way home from the stores. In the late sixties though was Conifer there at that time, the Safeway? Mildred: No, it was just a gas station when we was building up here. Oh really! Howard: Oh, you had to bring your groceries from town or you could go down into Bailey… Mildred: They had a grocery store there, yeah. Howard: Bailey Country Store I think it’s called. Still there. They’ve been there a long time. Oh yes. Howard: As a matter of fact, there’s a little history on that place, too. The sidewalk right out in front used to be about three foot above the ground. Oh really. Howard: Yeah, it’s my understanding – this is what I’ve heard – but they’ve had one and possibly two floods in Bailey . Huh. From the South Platte? Howard: From the Platte Canyon by the Forestry Service Building. Right. Howard: I guess and that’s what’s kind of raised the ground up or whatever it is! That’s interesting. Mildred: That history we got from McGraw down there. We met her too, but the way. Now who’s this? Mildred: Mrs. McGraw that had all that property down there. Her grandparents used to have the market there, the Bailey market. Oh, I may have interviewed her. I’d have to look in the list again and see, because… Mildred: They had that history down there. I just interviewed a lady whose been there for some time – Woody Day. Mildred: Mm-hmm. When he was working for the Post office, but she’s been there oh, forty, forty-five year and she had a lot of history of what it was like there at that time. She was in the early fifties. Mildred: Bisgaards, too gave me a lot of information about Harris place up there, but you’d have to talk to here because I don’t know the dates or anything, but they used to have ice - -build ice Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 16 up there. It used to be a Harris lake – good night, that was one of the prettiest lakes we had up there, but they had - - Water Board had to drain that. Really! Howard: Yeah, the lake leaked; it wouldn’t hold water, so they just breached the dam so they wouldn’t get water in and besides, you had to bring water in from the next valley over goes down into number two lake and had a ditch all the way from that one about a mile long, a ditch that brought over into Harris lake, but you couldn’t - - you had to keep that up every year and it didn't get no help to do it and … Mildred: He was on the Water Board about that time when we had to do all that. Howard: The ditch would wash out and so on, so it just discontinued using it but everybody wants a lake back up there, but they don’t think about the consequences of what it takes to get a lake up there. Mildred: That’s what they bought – lakefront property. Well, exactly. Well, there aren’t very many natural lakes in this area, that’s for sure. There’s one at the top of hall Valley for instance, but that’s a natural one and I still have yet to understand how trout got up there because we’ve hiked up there and you see trout jumping out of the pond at it’s at the end of a cirque. Mildred: Oh gee, isn’t that something? And it’s way - - it’s above timberline. Mildred: Mm-hmm. And trout are up there! And it’s like, “How did they get there?” Mildred: Yeah, that’s right. And those people stocked them. Well, so the Harris house is still here. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And you’re not sure when that was actually built though. Mildred: Sure don’t. I bet I could look it up and find out though. Oh I can check this out and see because it would be interesting to understand and it’s still privately owned. Mildred: Yes and it’s for sale now. Really. Mildred: He just - - I was telling about John Holland passing away that owned it. It would be interesting to understand the history of that - - you know, did they use natural materials in building that or does that go back before the turn of the century? Mildred: I imagine with ?Joe’s? Isn’t it that old house in Harris Park? That old house up here? Howard: Big one? Mildred: Yeah, wasn’t that all logs? Howard: yeah. Mildred: Yeah. Howard: There it was one… and two other cabins besides the big house ad the garage wasn’t there of course, she’s built a big two-car garage to (inaudible). Do you think when it was developed to be like a hunting area, did they build those cabins for people to come and stay while they were up here hunting? Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 17 Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Howard: I think that’s what it was yeah, ‘cause the people that come up in those days they’d come up in wagons or horseback or well, might have rode the train to Bailey and then come back through the (inaudible ) whatever. Yup. That was the way of getting up this valley at that time. Schools. Was there ever a school up here? Howard: Schools? Mildred: Yeah, Deer Creek was built after we came in. Howard: Yeah, Deer Creek Elementary was built after we came in. Mildred: We have a friend that lived in Bailey and she went to school up there at Camp IdRa-Ha-Je, that big building. Right. That was the school. Mildred: That was the only school they had. Right. Mildred: And she told me about riding the old milk truck up there to go to school because she lived in Bailey south of the Platte. Yeah, that was a great school as well as a high school for a long period of time. Then they started building the other ones on the other side of town. But there was never a school up here. Mildred: Mm-hmm (negative). how about a church. I think you’d mentioned that this building or this area had a church in it? Mildred: Yeah, he helped build it. I got that information here. They built it in 1989. Oh, okay. It’s a very new one then. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Anything prior to that? Was there a church that goes back? Mildred: We met in the building here. When we first came and moved up here, the church was here in the Community Center every Sunday and they had a bell up here. Okay. Mildred: And when they built the church up there they took the bell from up here and put it up there and that bell was given to us from a party in Lakewood, so they said they needed a bell and being a church, so we donated that bell and put it up here in the building!. Okay. And the church was where? Mildred: Right up the street here, right across from the store. Oh, okay. Is that a non-denominational church? Mildred: Sure is. Howard: Yeah, it’s called the Harris Park Bible Church. It’s all non-denominational, anybody can - - small group. It might go as high as about thirty people. Mildred: In the summertime there was always more. It’s probably part of the social structure up here, too. Mildred: Here’s some information if you need it. I just made it out to … Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 18 Okay. Howard: No, that was all built with volunteer funds, too. Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Exactly. Howard: Volunteer help. We did have some money that we bought the materials with ‘cause it’s been, well, the church, when it was even going down here – we had a Building Fund and our money was given into the building fund. One lady especially give an awful lot of money. Mildred: That was $300. Howard: John Ohlbrect of Id-Ra-Ha-Je was an awful big help in our church, too. He helped us while we was even down here in the church by coming in and preaching or seeing that we had somebody or something like that. As far as social activities, this Community Center was pretty much the center of activities. You had bingo, did you have dances or…? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kids - - when I was Recreation Chairman I had teen dances down here and had live bands. Oh okay. This would be late sixties, early seventies? Mildred: Yeah, it was in ’75 I was Recreation Chairman, ’75, ’76 and you probably know Carl Thompson? He’s the one that built a lot of houses up in here. Oh, okay. Mildred: And he’s the one that the designed the church. Howard: he was the big man behind the church up there because he knew how to build, he made his own plans and own crew Mildred: Had a lot of help. Howard: and turned out to be real good and the main part of the church was the first built and then the next year, or two after that, we built the addition onto it. So it was built in two different - we had enough money left over that we could built the addition on and then that left us with just enough money for a Working Fund. Yeah, that’s part of a small church also and it’s a struggle sometimes. Howard: As far as I know, that’s never been in debt up there at all. Oh, that’s nice. Howard: It’s a free church. Mildred: There’s a group that came in here and wanted to take it over because it was all free gratis and there was no debt against it, but they didn’t succeed. Personal question: you’ve been here a long time, forty some years. What’s the most outstanding event that you can recall in your period of living up here. Is there any particular thing that occurred in that whole time slot that really stood out as being significant to you? Mildred: Well, I was Reunion Chairman on the Board for twenty-one years. We’d always, every year, get all the old people back up and this was what brought this on. People ‘d pass away, we’d send them an invitation to come for a memorial for that particular party and … And people would be scattered back to Denver or out of state or anywhere. They had lived here for a period of time and then gone someplace, but you maintain a record of where there are. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 19 Mildred: Mm-hmm, yeah. It was interesting when we were getting the newsletters out; we knew where people lived, a lot of them in Hawaii and Texas and New York. We were surprised that so many people’d come from so many miles away, you know. Right, interesting. Howard: Kind of hard to think of the most outstanding events that might happen up here because they all seem like… Mildred: Everything was important. Howard: Little old great big outstanding things. What would you say that stood out in your mind as being significant while you lived up here that was… Howard: Oh, we even had the fireworks off of the dam down at Number One lake. When was that? Howard: A guy a come in and set up the regular deal and really shot them. Mildred: The Fire Department, yeah. Howard: I can’t remember the dates. So that was some time several years ago? Howard: Oh yeah, it’s been quite a while ago. Mildred: Probably in the eighties Howard: Then they kind of banned that altogether. Of course, we always took our Volunteer Fire Department and stood by you know, and then we shot out over the lake so it was kind of fairly safe, but then after a few of these fires, why, you get kind of a scare. Oh yes. Howard: So I just decided to stay from it altogether, Well, we moved here in 200 and I had the - - what’s the name of the fir behind the high school? Mildred: Oh yeah. Snaking Fire and then 2002, we had the High Meadows – not High Meadow – what was the other one. It was a big one, like a 150,000 acres. So yeah, it’s a big concern. Mildred: It’s too close for comfort, isn’t it? Yeah. What do you think of this fire mitigation program that the Federal Government is talking about, the thinning of the forests and reducing the fire load of materials. IS that something that you think makes sense here? Because you’ve got a lot of National Forest surrounding you, so you’re vulnerable if those forests were to catch fire, that would be a big concern. Have you investigated that or have you got any opinions about that? Howard: Oh, I don’t know, I guess fire Department has got some real good equipment for advanced fire-fighting and wildfires and stuff like this. Mildred: We had the Fire Chief come out and tell us that we’re pretty fortunate in this area because there isn’t any trees too close and the new had the three lakes here. Right, you’ve got a good water supply. Mildred: And we always go by the lakes you know, so he said we’re pretty safe up here, just to make sure that the trees weren’t too close to our houses you know. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 20 You’re dealings with park County Government. It appears to me in talking to people, and we’ve only been here four years, but it appears to me that there seems to be a lot of dissention and controversy regarding Park County and the way things are governed, especially the difference between the south of the Kenosha Pass and north, because there’s two different interest groups there. Do you have any experience with Park County as far as the government structure and support that you get from the County here? Howard: Well, I think Harris Park as a whole, people up here are kind of disgruntled with the policies and stuff that they have up there in Fairplay and of course, we’re like a sore thumb up here. We’re all this past and so on and a lot of people come here and don’t understand it until they finally dig into all of it and then up goes the “For Sale” sign and they’re gone. I really don’t know. I think that the County is doing the best they can with what money they got. Maybe they need some heads up there that can do more by bringing in more revenue or something, but I don’t know – that’s up to them. That’s a little beyond me. I’ve been on boards like the Fire Board and the (inaudible) Board up here stuff but that’s just small potatoes according to what they got ‘cause really, Park County is got a big problem. Mildred: The Water Board. In the sense that because it’s so different, or what sense they’ve got a big problem? Howard: Well, I think their (inaudible) grids is one on the account of trying to keep up with the weather and our conditions around here, deteriorating roads and stuff like that, why, it just isn’t like some of these other places where you grade a road once and it’s graded for awhile, but here, you’ve got to over about every day! Is that because of the nature of the soil itself? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). It’s decomposed granite or what? Howard: Yeah and then the rain comes along and… It flows. Howard: Flows, yeah. Washed away. Yeah, we had the same problem where we live, too. Howard: But I don’t know, it seems to me that the - - you don’t really know these things; you’re just kind of on the outside watching them. It looks to me like they’ve owned a few things and they sell them and like buildings, and they’ll go and rent one someplace else and pay a lot of rent for it and then pretty soon they’ll get the idea that maybe they’ll build their own building. The last one they built was down in Bailey and I just wonder how long they’re going to keep that one? That was a very expensive building, too for what they got. That’s a huge amount of money. Has it always been that way in your experience with park County when you fist moved here in the sixties, was it like that also? Howard: I think so. They’ve always moved around. They’ve been in this building and that building and another building and I don’t now – maybe it depends on - - maybe I’m getting kind of psychic but it depends on who’s in charge up there and where they rent or something, I don’t know. Well, it does appears there’s - - people in South Park have totally different interests than the people on this side of the pass and so there’s always been that question. In fact… Howard: Well, that’s the ranch community over there and over here, it’s more - - I don’t know, it’s more people, so on. They’ve even talked about moving the County Seat to Bailey, but that’s just talk. They’ll never do that. No. Bailey is not an incorporated town and you have to have an incorporated town. They really should have split the County when you really get down to it. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 21 Howard: (inaudible) I think that’s - - I’ve been on the Sheriff’s Posse and I’ve done a lot of things up around Fairplay and beyond and so on and you’ve got to take the whole thing in perspective. You can’t just say, “Well, I want it this way because I’m here.” You know, you can’t do that. You’ve got - - there’s other people you Sure. You mentioned the Sheriff’s Posse. In your experience of having been here, has crime ever been a problem up here? Mildred: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just about every week. Howard: Oh, we’ve had a few people’s that have come up here and committed suicide, but that’s not what you call an outstanding crime I guess. No. Howard: The biggest thing is break-ins. Like in the winter time, cabins aren’t used and especially in the old days, why, there wasn’t very many people up here and heck, you’d find a cabin that was broke in and it had been lived in for awhile; a good month or so. And nobody … Howard: And you’d see trucks from this cabin over at this cabin and this cabin, this cabin, Mildred: Taking wood. Howard: And find out they’ve all been broke in! And then when you finally break down that you’ve got to do something about it, why, they’re gone. Right. HB: They seem to know, you know, (laughter). Okay! Howard: No, that’s the biggest thing that I can see that we’ve had up here. Well, without a bank you can’t have a bank robbery and so it’s probably been a pretty quiet community all the time you’ve been here. Howard: Well, we still have a little bit of that break-in anyway so (inaudible) Really. Howard: People get tired of nothing to do, I guess or think they got nothing to do and so they want to go out and raise a little heck. Mildred: This Harris Park has had a bad name. A bunch of druggies move in here, but we’ve got a lot of good kids, too. You’ll find that everywhere. Well, it’s neat to see that there’s been a community effort here to build what you have and there has to be a sense of community you know, and the place is isolated and since it is isolated… Mildred: There used to be five people on the Board and now we got seven on the Board, which I think - - and the Road Commissioner and different… Howard: Yeah, they got laws but they don’t’ enforce them up here except when they do, they enforce something that easy to enforce, I guess. We got people up here that drag stuff in and pretty soon they’ve got a big junk yard out here and more cars than you can shake a stick at and I think the law says that automobiles on your place have to be licensed and they have to be runable. Right. Howard: If they aren’t, then you’ve got a limited time to get rid of them or something like that. But it’s not enforced. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 22 Mildred: Mm-hmm ( negative). Howard: No. Yeah, we’ve even had that in Deer Creek Valley Ranches. We have people that have multiple vehicles and other individuals got all kinds of appliances on their property and it’s brought to the County’s attention and they’ve basically chosen to ignore it. So they’re not enforcing their zoning. Howard: Well, you say anything to them, “Well, we don’t have the money to do it with.” Exactly. That seems to be the answer to just anything. Howard: If you can’t service them, then bring them to Court and they haven’t got the money to do it will. Well,… So you’re basically allowing it to happened and so people will understand they can get away with it. That’s a problem all over the County. Howard: Yeah, I supposed you can’t do anything as far as their property goes. Go in there and force them to clean tier property up and put it against their taxes because the house is probably mortgaged to the hilt to start with, so if you add your money onto and try to sell it, you aren’t going to get your money anyway. Well, you know, people come up here, too feeling that they’re going to be able to do whatever they want. We’ve noticed that up here as a difference in an urban area. They come up here for a variety of reasons, including just wanting to be by themselves and do whatever it is they want. SO it’s hauling junk or keeping cars or whatever, they do it. Mildred: Many dogs that bark all night long. Oh yeah. Howard: Well, they want to do what they want and the heck with anything else. You got to take the good with the bad. There’s advantages of being out here because you’ve got some beautiful area around here Mildred: That’s right. And there’s some down sides of that, too. Is there anything else you can think of that you can talk about regarding the history of Harris where your experiences are here in Harris Park? Mildred: All I can say is we love it! I mean, it’s a great town. That’s the beauty of it. Howard: Or even where the - - the building that’s over here now that - - two big buildings are John’s big garage and then there’s - - we’ll, then there’s two other buildings. There’s a place here that has a place for their equipment, which isn’t much I guess and then the Water Board got a building over there. But out there in that wired-in area we used to use that for a dump collection area and we had the idea at one time of watching all these trash trucks come up here go into individual houses and we could open them Saturdays and Sundays would keep this area open with a couple of big dumpsters in there and would charge the people fifty cents a load to go in and help offset. Sure. Howard: Some of the stuff and then the salvage people would come up and dump them once a week. Right. Park County Local History Archives �Park County Oral History Project BETTS, MILDRED Bailey, CO 23 Howard: And hauled off and we’d be ready for the next week, so everybody can have all these trucks running around and there’s a trash can sitting out and we tried putting trash cans around the lakes for the fisherman and stuff and pretty soon they start putting home stuff in it and all this. Mildred: Throwing them in the lake. Howard: So we had to discontinue that. Oh! Howard: And over by this area here, really thought of a tourist, we had a helicopter landing and we kept the pad; we kept it open over there in the winter time and so on and we kept the pad clean and … For like Flight for Life or… Howard: (inaudible) pouring oil on it, so on, so it was used quite a few times. It’s still there now? Howard: It’s still there, but they don’t seem to want to use it. Mildred: They don’t’ use it too much. Howard: But there is some wires up there but we got the big balls hanging on the wires up there and they can land and so on, but most of the time they transport them in to the top of Bailey, Crow Hill. Mildred: Like they did him one time. Howard: I suppose it’s easier for them to find, some of the pilots probably aren’t - especially at night time – Yeah, I’d be concerned, but that’s a twenty-minute drive down to Crow Hill from here, isn’t it? Mildred: It is. Howard: Well, if you’ve got a central point then they will get used to it and then they go… No doubt. Okay, well, I can’t think of anything else, unless you can. Mildred: I’ll look up some of that way back history on this and see when they did sell and what not because I think they have some papers over there was given to me. Howard: What is your purpose or whatever. Oh, I can explain that; let me shut this off; we’re done with the recording now. End Of Tape Park County Local History Archives � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 2004 interview with Mildred and Howard Betts Subject The topic of the resource Rural development; Rural public utilities; Urban-rural migration Description An account of the resource Interview with Mildred and Howard Betts about Colorado history, Harris Park, extreme weather events, and changes in land and ownership Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hult, Bob Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of one audio-cassette with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of two files. A transcript does accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-07-22 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Betts, Mildred; Betts, Howard Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp5 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Betts_M_01a; oh_Betts_M_01b Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Harris Park (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 37bad223-db34-4510-aedb-cdc3f1b16c69 Harris Park rural town https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/d5c11e2f9f30d512eb706d5d8f468e57.mp3 bdd6f897528d4222d492fd9d109ad393 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/ade8c4dab2b46405e5cf9ea53c915f17.mp3 b558a26289258b7780247c3689b3698a https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/8505b37233e917a1244fd47595621325.pdf 12bdb456f8ef284d842ce852540127ca PDF Text Text INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY APRIL 14, 1979 GUFFEY, COLORADO im 6 u -f -fe y, d e l a r i i o �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL APRIL 14, 1979 INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY TAPE I, SIDE I MS. K: THIS IS LORI KENNEDY. IS 1:00 P.M. A" THE DATE IS APRIL 14, 1979. THE TIME I AM INTERVIEWING CHARLIE DELL AT HIS HOME IN GUFFEY, COLORADO. CHARLIE, HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN GUFFEY? MR. D: ALL MY LIFE. MS. K: YOU WERE BORN HERE? MR. D: YEAH, YES. MS. K: WHO WAS THE FIRST OF YOUR RELATIVES TO COME TO GUFFEY? MR. D: WELL, MY GRANDFATHER CAME INTO THIS COUNTRY- MY GRANDFATHER DELL- HE WAS HERE IN 1861. - YEAH, HE CAME HERE IN 1861, THAT'S MY GRANDFATHER DELL, THAT'S MY DAD'S FATHER AND MY MOTHER'S THEY, ER, MY GREAT GRANDFATHER, IN OTHER WORDS, DOUGLAS, ON MOTHER'S SIDE, CAME- HE WAS DOWN AROUND BENT'S FORT, COLORADO, DOWN IN NEAR PUEBLO, WAY DOWN IN THAT COUNTRY. HE WAS AN OLD SCOUT, HE’D GO BACK TO KANSAS AND COME INTO COLORADO. AS FAR BACK AS WE COULD CHECK HIM. FAMILY, CLEAR BACK TO RHODE ISLAND. A WAS BORN IN RHODE ISLAND IN 1810. THAT'S WE CHECKED THE DELL MY GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER MS. K: WHAT BROUGHT THEM OUT TO GUFFEY, BOTH SETS OF GRANDPARENTS? MR. D: WELL, MY MOTHER'S DAD AND GRANDFATHER, THEY COME IN HERE, THEY WERE OLD SCOUTS, JUST SCOUTS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY WAS OLD SCOUTS. MS. K: WERE THEY MARRIED WHEN THEY CAME? MR. D: NO, THEY WEREN'T. THEY FINALLY WENT BACK TO KANSAS AND GOT THEM WIVES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. MS. K: AND THEN THEIR WIVES CAME WITH THEM? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWO MR. D: YEAH, AND THEN THEIR WIVES CAME WITH THEM. GRANDFATHER DELL, HE JUST TORE OUT ON ACCOUNT OF THE WAR. HE WASN'T GOING TO BE A WARRIOR. [LAUGHS] HE JUST GOT OUT OF THAT CIVIL WAR: HE COME IN HERE. I DON’T KNOW HOW HIS FAMILY GOT HERE. ANYHOW, THEY SHOWED UP FINALLY. MS. K: THEY DIDN'T COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME? MR. D: OH NO, HE HAD TO GET OUT QUICK. YOU KNOW, THEY WAS OUT HUNTING MEN, [LAUGHjf/sO HE HAD TO GET OUT QUICK. MS. K: DO YOU KNOW HOW YOUR GRANDMOTHER FELT ABOUT THAT? MR. D: UMM, GOD, I DON'T KNOW. ALL RIGHT." MAN. SHE PROBABLY THOUGHT, WELL..."IT'S HE JUST DIDN'T WANNA FIGHT. HE DIDN'T LIKE TO WAR. HE WASN'T A WARRING AS FAR AS MOTHER'S PARENTS AND GRANDDAD, THEY CAME HERE WHEN COLORADO WAS NOT EVEN A TERRITORY, AS FAR AS THAT GOES. MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOUR GRANDMOTHERS ON BOTH SIDES LIKED LIVING HERE? DO YOU REMEMBER THEM AT ALL? MR. D: OH YES, I REMEMBER MY GRANDMOTHER. MS. K: WHICH ONE? MR. D: BOTH OF THEM. MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT THEM? MR. D: YEAH, THEY CLAIM THAT GRANDMOTHER DELL CLAIMED THAT HER ANCES­ TORS CAME FROM SCOTLAND. YES. AND SHE WAS A GREAT MUSICIAN. SHE WAS VERY, VERY TALENTED. AND 'COURSE GRANDFATHER DELL, HE WAS RELIGIOUS, AND HE DIDN’T BELIEVE IN DANCING, SO THEY DIDN'T GET ALONG TOO GOOD ON THAT KIND OF THING. [l AUGHSJ �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE THREE MS. K: DID THEY BOTH LIVE THE REST OF THEIR LIVES HERE? MR. D: YEAH, THEY LIVED ALL OF THEIR LIVES HERE. HERE...AND IN 1918, ONE DIED IN 1918. THEY DIED RIGHT THE FLU, THAT GOT HER. THE OTHER ONE DIED IN 1920, 1921, ALONG IN THERE. MS. K: HOW OLD WERE THEY WHEN THEY DIED? MR. D: OH, OLD, OLD, OLD PEOPLE, THEY LIVED TO BE OLD. BY GOD, THEY LIVED TO BE OLD. MS. K: DID YOU EVER TALK TO THEM MUCH, YOUR GRANDPARENTS? DID THEY LIVE VERY CLOSE TO YOU? MR. D: OH MY GRANDMOTHER- MY MOTHER'S, OH THEY WERE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. I COULDN'T GET ALONG WITH GRANDMOTHER DELL AT ALL. DIDN'T, HER AND I NEVER HITCHED. EVERY TIME I'D TURN AROUND. SHE JUST OH, AND SHE'D JUST FRAIL ME ^LAUGHS] SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE I'D EVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING. (LAUGHS^ JUST FRAIL THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME. I’ DON'T KNOW WHY, SHE JUST DIDN'T LIKE ME, I GUESS. MS. K DO YOU THINK THEY EVER GOT LONELY? MR. D OH NO, THEY WEREN'T. MS. K WAS IT VERY POPULATED OUT HERE THEN? MR. D NOT TOO, NOT TOO POPULATED. MS. K HOW DID THEY SPEND THEIR DAYS? MR. D BY GOD, THEY WORKED HARD, THEY WORKED HARD. MS. K WHAT KINDS OF THINGS DID THEY DO? MR. D WASHED CLOTHES. THEY WERE ALWAYS AROUND SOMEBODY. AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE NO WASHING MACHINES. THEY HAD TO DO HER THE OLD STYLE WAY. SOAP, AND THEY HAD TO BAKE BREAD. AND THEY HAD TO MAKE THEY HAD TO COOK. TO KEEP THE HOUSE, AND THEY JUST DONE LOTS OF WORK. HAD TO PACK WATER FROM THE SPRING AND ALL THAT STUFF. THEY HAD AND THEY �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE FOUR MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO FOR ENTERTAINMENT, ANYTHING? MR. D: OH,THEY’D HAVE DANCES HERE. SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE DANCES. SOMEONE IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, WOULD ALWAYS. RANCHMAN WOULD THROW A...HAVE A GOOD DANCE. SOME EVERYBODY WOULD COME. MS. K: WHEN YOUR MOTHER WAS BORN, SHE WAS BORN RIGHT HERE. MR. D: [n o d s ] MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT HER? MR. D: YES. OH MOTHER, SHE WAS VERY MUCH OF A MUSICIAN. SHE WAS A MUSICIAN, TOO, A PIE-ANO PLAYER, A DANCER, AND ALL THAT STUFF. VERY TALENTED IN ALL THAT. MS. K: WHERE DID SHE LEARN HOW TO PLAY THAT? MR. D: OH, I SUPPOSE THEY HAD TEACHERS, YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY DO. HAD MUSIC TEACHERS SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE. TO PLAY; ALL OF THEM WAS MUSICIANS. YEAH, THEY LEARNED THE WHOLE FAMILY WAS MUSICIANS AND COULD PLAY SOMETHING. MS. K WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SHE DID? MR. D OH, JUST RAISE THE FAMILY. MS. K HOW MANY CHILDREN DID SHE HAVE? MR. D SIX MS. K DID SHE HAVE ANY HELP WHEN SHE HAD THEM? MR. D YEAH, THEM MIDWIVES. THEY DIDN’T HAVE NO DOCTORS, JUST THOSE MIDWIVES. [LAUGHS] MS. K: AND YOU WERE JUST BORN OUT HERE? MR. D: YEAH...AND NONE EVER DIED. {LAUGHS^ WOULD'VE HAD TO GO TO THE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE FIVE MR. D: (CONTINUED) HOSPITAL AND ALL THAT, AND IT WOULD HAVE COST SOME MONEY. IN THEM TIMES, IT DIDN'T COST MUCH. JUST HAVE THOSE MIDWIVES, AND THEY WAS JUST ABOUT AS GOOD AS A DOCTOR, I GUESS, NOWADAYS. MS. K: WHAT KINDS OF THINGS DID SHE DO? HAVE OF HER? MR. D: WHAT KINDS OF MEMORIES DO YOU DID SHE GET LONELY? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T THINK THEY HAD TIME TO GET TOO LONELY BECAUSE THEY WORKED ALL THE TIME. THEY WORKED HARD. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. MS. K: HOW CLOSE WERE YOUR CLOSEST NEIGHBORS? MR. D: OH, WE FINALLY MOVED UPTOWN. YOU SEE WE HAD A RANCH, AND THEN WE FINALLY SOLD THE RANCH AND MOVED UPTOWN HERE, AND THEN WE HAD NEIGHBORS. MOTHER HAD NEIGHBORS RIGHT HERE IN TOWN. YOU KNOW, SHE LIVED IN TOWN HERE. MS. K: WELL, I'VE HEARD YOU MENTION SOME OF THE OTHER LADIES THAT LIVED AROUND IN GUFFEY OR AROUND MAYBE IN HARTSEL. MR. D: UMM HMM. OH, THERE WAS ALOT OF THEM [l AUGHs ] GALS. M S . K :' CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT SOME IN PARTICULAR? MR. D: OH, THEY CAME IN HERE AND TOOK UP LAND. ALLOWED. YOU KNOW THEY WAS IF THEY WEREN'T MARRIED, THEY COULD TAKE UP A FULL SECTION OF LAND WHICH WAS SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY ACRES. MS. K: BUT ONLY IF THEY WEREN'T MARRIED. MR. D: YES, IF THEY WERE MARRIED THEY COULDN'T DO IT. COULD, BUT THE WOMAN COULDN'T. THEIR HUSBAND HELL, A LOT OF THEM OLD GALS COME IN HERE AND TOOK UP SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY ACRES. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE SIX MS. K: THERE WERE QUITE A FEW OF THEM? MR. D: YEAH, LOTS OF WOMEN COME IN AND TOOK UP LAND, AND THEY'D LIVE ON IT F^O THREE YEARS AND PROVE UP ON IT AND SELL IT FOR A THOUSAND DOLLARS A SECTION. BRING A THOUSAND DOLLARS; THEY'D DO ALL RIGHT. MS. K: THEN WHAT WOULD THEY DO AFTER THEY SOLD IT? MR. D: AH, THEY'D MOVE BACK TOWN OR SOMEWHERES YOU KNOW. THERE WAS A LINE OF THEM, SCHOOL TEACHERS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL. MS. K: HOW DID THEY MAKE THEIR LIVING DURING THAT TIME? MR. D: OH, THEY'D FARM. YOU COULD RAISE SPUDS AND POTATOES AND HAY [o pi.] j nn' ALL RIGHT. AT THAT TIME, WE HAD SOME GOOD YEARS, AND THEY COULD JUST PLOW UP SOME LAND, AND THEY COULD RAISE POTATOES. MS. K: SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO USE THE WHOLE SECTION OF LAND, DID THEY? MR. D: OH NO, NO. THEY COULD PLOW THEM UP TWENTY ACRES OF SPUDS AND TWENTY ACRES OF HAY AND ALL THAT. MS. K: DID THEY DO THIS BY THEMSELVES? MR. D: YEAH__ LOT OF THEM WOULD. HAVE MILK COWS, CHICKENS. AND THEN SOME OF THEM WOULD HIRE A FELLOW, HIRE A GUY TO COME AND WORK FOR THEM, YOU KNOW... ACCORDING TO THEIR LOOKS. IF THEY WERE REAL GOOD LOOKING, THEY NEVER HAD TO HIRE THEM ANY MEN, ^LAUGHTER) YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. OH, OLD SIX-SHOOTER ANNIE, SHE HAD A PLACE OVER HERE. TOOK UP A SECTION OVER ON THREE-MILE. YEARS OLD WHEN I KNEW HER. AND WE WENT BY THERE WITH A LOAD OF POTATOES WITH A TEAM AND WAGON. HORSES. SHE WAS ABOUT THIRTY WE STOPPED TO WATER OUR IT'S ABOUT HALF WAY TO HARTSEL. AND WE STOPPED, AND �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE SEVEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) SHE HAD INVITED US IN, AND WE, I AND MY DAD, AND WE HAD DINNER AND LUNCH IN HER HOUSE, AND COFFEE AND LET OUR TEAM EAT AND FINALLY WENT ON TO HARTSEL. HOMESTEADED. THEY CLAIM SHE AND BUILT HER LOG CABIN, AND I GUESS SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW AND GOT THE DAMN ROOF ON, AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW- YOU KNOW YOU GOT TO HAVE A CERTAIN KIND OF SAW TO CUT A ROUND CIRCLE WITH TO PUT THE STOVE PIPE THROUGH- AND THEY SAID SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW, SO SHE DRAWED A CIRCLE WHERE SHE WANTED HER STOVEPIPE AND TOOK HER SIX-SHOOTER AND SHOT BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, YOU KNOW, AND ROUND AND KNOCKED IT OUT OF THERE. AND BY GOD, I BELIEVE IT, BECAUSE I HAD THE PIECE OF WOOD! I HAD IT AROUND HERE FOR A LONG TIME. THEY ALWAYS HAD PLENTY OF GUNS, YOU KNOW, AND AMMUNITION. THAT'S ONE THING YOU ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE PLENTY OF IS GUNS AND AMMUNITION. MS. K: WAS IT PRETTY COMMON TO SEE A WOMAN CARRYING A GUN? MR. D: OH, THEY CARRIED GUNS. SHE CARRIED A GUN. YOU BET THEY DID! YEAH, BEULAH BEELER, SHE PACKED A BIG OLD FORTY-FIVE ON HER. BY GOD SHE WAS, SHE TAKE CARE OF HERSELF ALL RIGHT. MS. K: DID THEY HAVE TO USE THEM VERY OFTEN? MR. D: OH NO, BUT IN CASE. THEY COULD PACK A GUN SEEM TO MIND PACKING GUNS. COULD SEE IT. MS. K: THEN. THEYDIDN'T PACK IT OUT RIGHT WHERE EVERYBODY IT'S ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID THE MEN THINK OF THESE WOMEN THAT CAME IN THAT WERE SINGLE AND TOOK A SECTION OF LAND? THEY KIND OF LEAVE THEM ALONE? DID THEY ADMIRE THEM OR DID �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE EIGHT MR. D: OH;THEY ADMIRED THEM, YES. TAKE THAT LAND. THEY HAD A RIGHT TO, YOU KNOW, AND AND MAYBE THEIR HUSBAND DIED AND MAYBE GOT KILLED IN THE WAR. YOU KNOW, THAT WORLD WAR ONE, HE MIGHT OF GOT KILLED IN WORLD WAR ONE, AND THEY GOT TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, SO THEY'D COME IN HERE AND TAKE THEM UP A SECTION OF LAND, PROVE UP ON IT, SELL THEIR LAND. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THEY DIDN'T JUST STAY BACK EAST WHERE IT WAS A LOT EASIER TO LIVE? MR. D: WELL, THEY WANTED TO GET OUT. MS. K : WHY? MR. D: I GUESS JUST TO GET OUT. NOW. LIKE, WELL, THEY DO NOW. WOMEN'DO THEY WAS TWO GIRLS FROM COLORADO SPRINGS OR MANITOU, AND GOD, THEY COME UP HERE ONE TIME AND LIVED IN A TEEPEE ALL WINTER. [ AUGHs ] BY GOD, THAT WAS A COLD SON OF A GUN. l MS. K: DO YOU THINK JUST TO SEE IF THEY COULD DO IT? MR. D: I SUPPOSE, JUST TO SEE IF THEY COULD DO IT. MS. K: DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE REASON THEY CAME BACK THEN BY THEMSELVES MR. D: YES, AND THEY MIGHT GET TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS F^pTHEIR DAMN SECTION, ACCORDING TO WHERE IT WAS AT. MS. K: MR. IT WAS MOSTLY FOR THE MONEY THEN? D: YOU'RE DANGED RIGHT. THEY'D MAKE A LITTLE MONEY. A LOT OF THEM LOST THEIR HUSBANDS AND SOME OF THEM GOT MARRIED, TOO. HERE 'COURSE IT WAS SHORT ON WOMEN ALWAYS,(LAUGHS^AND A LOT OF THEM WOMEN WENT OUT HERE IN SHUMWAY PARK. SHE TOOK UP A SECTION OF LAND, AND BY GOD, A SOLDIER COME ALONG AND TOOK UP ANOTHER SEC­ TION RIGHT BESIDE HER, AND BY GOD, THEY GOT MARRIED. AND HE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE NINE MR. D: (CONTINUED) WAS A DESIGN PAINTER BY TRADE, AND SHE WAS A SCHOOLTEACHER, SO THEY PROVED UP ON THEIR LAND AND AWAY THEY WENT, SOLD IT AND WENT BACK TO TOWN. MS. K: DID SHE HAVE TO GIVE UP HER SECTION OF LAND WHEN SHE GOT MARRIED MR. D: NO, NO, SHE FILED ON IT WHEN SHE WAS STILL SINGLE AND SHE STILL COULD OWN IT. THEY SOLD OUT, THEY GOT HITCHED AND TOOK OUT AND WENT TO BOULDER, BOULDER DAM, HOOVER DAM, OUT IN NEVADA. THAT'S WHERE THEY WENT TO. GUESS. (5 J THEY WENT OUT THERE AND HAD A FAMILY, I RAISED A FAMILY. AND THEN THERE WAS THREE GIRLS RIGHT UP ABOVE GUFFEY TOOK UP A, ONE TOOK UP A SECTION, AND THE OTHERS JUST LIVED THERE WITH HER. THE OTHER TWO, THEIR NAMES WAS YONKONS, THE YONKONS I THINK WAS THEIR NAMES. VERY WELLj THEY TOOK UP LAND. TWENTY-ONE5 I REMEMBER THEM 'COURSE THE OLDER ONE, SHE WAS SHE JUST TOOK UP LAND. I THINK THE OLD BUILDING IS STILL UP THERE THAT THEY USED TO PROVE UP. THEY PROVED UP ON IT AND SOLD THE DAMN THING AND TOOK OFF. MS. K: WERE THERE ANY OTHER SINGLE WOMEN THAT CAME OUT WHO MAYBE HAD BUSINESSES OR ANY OTHER REASONS FOR COMING OUT AND TAKING UP A SECTION OF LAND? MR. D: WELL NO. TEACHERS. THERE WAS SCHOOL TEACHERS. THEY'D ALWAYS GET SCHOOL HAD TO HAVE SCHOOL TEACHERS HERE, AND THEY'D HIRE THEM, AND SOME OF THEM WOULD LIKE THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, AND TAKE UP LAND....THEN WE HAD ONE COME IN HERE, AND HER HUSBAND BOUGHT A STORE. THE STORE. BOUGHT THE STORE UP HERE AT GUFFEY. HE WAS AN OLD SICKLY GUY; HE HAD ASTHMA. STARTED HE DIDN'T LAST VERY LONG, AND BY GOD, HE'DIED, SO SHE GOT THE STORE. SHE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) WAS A YOUNGER WOMAN. DIED, AND SHE RUN THE STORE. SONS AND A DAUGHTER. PUT THEM IN THE NAVY. SHE WASN'T TOO OLD, AND HE SHE HAD A DUAGHTER. SHE HAD TWO THE MINUTE HER SONS GOT OLD ENOUGH, SHE AND THEN SHE'D RUN THE STORE. SHE SURE, SHE WAS A RASCAL,BY GOD. AND GOD, YOU SURE HAD TO WATCH HER, BY GOD, SHE WAS THERE TO RUN THE STORE AND MAKE SOME MONEY. SHE WASN'T THERE FOR HER HEALTH OR NOTHING! [LAUGHg MS. K: YOU MEAN THAT SHE WOULD CHEAT.YOU? MR. D: WELL, SHE'D CHEAT ANYBODY, SHE DIDN'T CARE WHO YOU WERE. jLAUGHSj AS LONG AS SHE GOT THAT MONEY, YOU KNOW. OFFICE; SHE GOT THE POST OFFICE. AND SHE HAD THE POST AND THEN IN 1934, WHEN YOU COULD HAVE BEER, WHY SHE GOT A BEER DEAL. AND WHEN SHE LEFT, BY GOD, SHE WAS REALLY WELL OFF. THAT'S ALL THERE WAS TO IT: SHE WAS WELL OFF, VERY WELL OFF. AND THE LOVELY DAUGHTER. I'D GO UP THERE AND FLIRT WITH THE DAUGHTER. NINETEEN YEARS OLD. SHE WAS ABOUT SHE SURE WATCHED THAT DAUGHTER. YOU KNOW, SHE WANTED TO GET RID OF HER, BUT SHE WANTED TO GET SOME WEALTHY MAN; SHE DIDN'T WANT JUST SOME OLD GUY. I USED TO GO UP THERE, AND THE DAUGHTER AND I PLANNED TO GO TO A DANCE. SO I MADE A DATE WITH HER, AND SHE DIDN'T KNOW HOW SHE WAS GOING TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING. I TOLD HER ALONG AFTER DARK, WHY, I'D TAKE A LADDER AND PUT HER UP TO THE WINDOW, AND SHE COULD CLIMB DOWN THE LADDER. AND HER AND I WENT TO THE DANCE. SHE TOLD MOTHER, "WELL, GOODNIGHT MOTHER", AND "YEAH, GOODNIGHT DAUGHTER", AND SHE WENT UPSTAIRS AND SHE CHANGED HER CLOTHES. AND I WAS READY WITH THE LADDER, AND SHE CLIMBED AND SNEAKED �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE EVEVEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) DOWN THE LADDER, AND HER AND I WENT TO THE DANCE. DAMN, WE HAD A GOOD TIME. [LAUGHS] MY GOD, IT WAS ALL RIGHT, BUT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE POLITICAL DANCES. KNOW. POLITICIANS, YOU AND SO TWO DAYS HERE COME SOME POLITICIANS INTO MOTHER DAY'S AND TALKING TO MOTHER DAY AND "VOTE FOR ME" AND YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. AND YEAH, SHE SAID, "I GOT A DAUGHTER, TOO", AND^ WELL J THE POLITICIANS SAID, "YEAH, WE MET YOUR DAUGHTER." "WELL, WHERE?" "WELL, DOWN AT THE DANCE." MOTHER DAY FIGURED HOW IN THE WORLD DID SHE EVER GET TO THAT DANCE. SHE FINALLY GOT AFTER THE DAUGHTER, AND THE DAUGHTER TOLD HER SHE CLIMBED DOWN THE LADDER AND SNEAKED TO THE DANCE. GONNA SHOOT MEj [LAUGHS] SO, SHE WAS MOTHER DAY WAS GOING TO SHOOT ME. TOLD ME, "YOU BETTER NOT GO BACK INTO GUFFEY." "WHY?" "MOTHER DAY IS GOING TO SHOOT YOU." MY BROTHER AND I SAYS, I WENT BACK IN 2 0 w iT TO TALK TO HER, AND SHE WASN'T NEAR SO MAD AS SHE THOUGHT SHE . rj WAS. ANYHOW, I TOOK THE DAUGHTER. I WENT IN AND I ASKED,THEN; THE NEXT TIME, "CAN I TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER TO THE DANCE?" "OH, YES', YOU CAN. " FILLED UP THE OLD CAR WITH GAS AND WENT | UP THERE AND THOUGHT THE DAUGHTER WOULD BE READY. AND HERE COME THE DAUGHTER AND THE DANGED OLD SCHOOL TEACHER ABOUT FIFTY YEARS OLD AND PILED IN WITH US. I WONDERED WHAT IN THE HELL! [l AUGhJ] SHE SENT THE OLD GAL ALONG AS A CHAPERONE. [ a u g h t e r ] THERE WAS A LOT OF THEM OLD GALS UP IN THIS COUNTRY, l SOME OF THEM WAS ROUGH, AND OTHERS WAS NICE. THEY WAS JUST, OH, WOMEN. AND I DON'T KNOW, �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWELVE MS. K: WHEN DID THEY START COMING IN? WHEN DID YOU SEE AN INCREASE IN WOMEN? MR. D: ABOUT WORLD WAR ONE AND THEN ON; IT USED TO BE SHORT ON WOMEN. WHY THE'D COME IN. THERE WASN'T NO WOMEN. LOTS OF MEN, LOTS OF COWBOYS, BUT NO, NO WOMEN. BY GOD, DAMN, OH, OF COURSE CANON CITY OR CRIPPLE CREEK, YEAH, THEY HAD THEM. BUT NOT OUT HERE IN THE COUNTRY. MS. K: WERE YOU EVER ACQUAINTED WITH ANY INDIAN WOMEN OR SPANISH WOMEN? MR. D: WERE THERE ANY WHO LIVED AROUND HERE? NO, NOT, NO. WELL, THEY ALL GOT OUT OF HERE AT THAT TIME. THEY ALL GOT OUT. IN ARIZONA. THEY WAS GOING, LET'S SEE, THERE WAS SOME AND DOWN THERE, YOU COULD SEE THEM. COLORADO, THERE WAS SOME INDIAN WOMEN. PARTICULARLY HERE. MS. K: DID YOU EVER ASSOCIATE WITH ANY OF THEM? MR. D: OH, DOWN IN ARIZONA. END OF SIDE ONE AND WESTERN BUT NOT RIGHT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL APRIL 14, 1979 INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE THIRTEEN MR. D: YEAH, THAT GIRL IN ARIZONA, SHE WAS PRETTY NICE. ON THAT RANCH Jm ULESHOe ]FOR FOUR YEARS. SHE WORKED HELPER, YOU KNOW, HELPED IN THE HOUSE, THE FOREMAN'S WIFE, HELPED THE FOREMAN’S WIFE. SHE GOT A GOOD EDUCATION. SHE SAID SHE WENT THROUGH THE TWELFTH GRADE, AND SAID SHE HAD AN AWFUL TIME OF MAKING IT, TOO, TO GET THROUGH THE TWELFTH GRADE, BECAUSE, BY GOD, SHE HAD TO HERD SHEEP TO GET MONEY ENOUGH TO GO TO SCHOOL. AND WHEN SHE DID, SHE HAD A GOOD EDUCATION, AND SHE WAS PRETTY NICE, TOO. AND WASN'T A BAD LOOKING GAL. I USED TO - THE COWBOYS, THEY'D - SIDETRACK HER. BUT, 'COURSE, A LOT OF THEM WERE MARRIED AND HAD WIVES- I FIGURED, WELL, HELL, I'M DOWN HERE. - HELL, I TOOK HER, AND WE'D GO TO HILLSIDE AND PRESCOTT AND EVERYWHERE, AND, YOU KNOW, ON SATURDAYS. WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD TIME...BUT AS FAR AS INDIANS UP HERE, THEY DONE TAKEN THEM ALL OUT, YOU KNOW THEY TOOK THEM AWAY TO THE RESERVATION. MS. K: WHAT WAS THE FEELING OF OTHER PEOPLE TOWARD, SAY, A WHITE MAN GOING OUT WITH AN INDIAN WOMAN? MR. D: YEAH, KINDA, I THINK THEY DID. GOD, I WAS WAY OFF FROM HOME; IT WAS ALL RIGHT; WAS THAT LOOKED DOWN UPON? BUT DOWN THERE IN ARIZONA, I DIDN'T GIVE A DARN ANYHOW. SHE WAS JUST A GOOD PERSON. SHE WAS A GOOD PERSON. INDIAN, BUT NOWADAYS, WELL, LOTS OF GUYS COME BACK FROM THE ARMY, THEY GOT THOSE WIVES, KOREAN WIVES AND WIVES FROM OVER THERE IN THE ISLANDS...I DON'T GUESS IT HURTS. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE FOURTEEN MS. K: 52 > nnin] j£ DID YOU EVER KNOW OF ANY WIVES UP HERE THAT LEFT THEIR HUSBANDS? MAYBE THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT, OR DID THEY USUALLY DO WHAT THEIR HUSBANDS TOLD THEM TO DO? MR. D: THERE WAS ONE OLD WIFE AND FAMILY, THE ONE FELLOW. HE HAD A BUNCH OF WILD HORSES OUT HERE, AND HE THOUGHT HE COULD MAKE SOME MONEY ON WILD HORSES, AND GOOD GOD, YOU KNOW, YOU'D STARVE TO DEATH WITH THEM. HIM; FINALLY, BY GOD, HIS WIFE JUST UP AND LEFT THE FAMILY JUST PULLED OUT. HE HAD A WIFE AND A GIRL AND TWO BOYS, AND THEY JUST PULLED OUT AND TORE OUT. HE STAYED OVER THERE, AND, BY GOD, HE COULDN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY WITH THOSE DAMN HORSES TO FEED HIMSELF, YOU KNOW. THEY WERE JUST A BUNCH OF WILD HORSES, YOU KNOW, AND NO GOOD, NO GOOD, NO GOOD STOCK. IF THEY HAD BEEN GOOD STOCK OF HORSES, QUARTER HORSES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HE'D HAVE MADE SOME MONEY. THEY WERE JUST THOSE LITTLE OLD BRONCOS. BUT FINALLY THE GOVERN­ MENT, FINALLY HE DIED, AND THE GOVERNMENT COME IN KILLED ALL THOSE HORSES - A HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE HEAD, IN ONE PLACE, GOT RID OF THEM, HUNT THEM JUST LIKE YOU WOULD DEER, YOU KNOW. YOU GOT RID OF THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE EATING UP THE GRASS ON GOVERNMENT GROUND, AND WERE NO GOOD. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK HIS WIFE LEFT HIM? MR. D: HE JUST DIDN'T MAKE A LIVING FOR HER. YOU KNOW, BY GOD, HE WOULDN'T SELL ONE HORSE IN A MONTH. MS. K: WHERE DO YOU THINK SHE WENT? MR. D: SHE WENT UP TO MONTANA. A SAWMILL. SHE HAD A BROTHER UP IN MONTANA RUN SHE WENT UP THERE WITH HIM. AND I THINK SOMEBODY �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE FIFTEEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) SAID SHE FINALLY GOT A DIVORCE AND MARRIED AGAIN UP THERE-MARRIED A GUY IN MONTANA. MS. K: WAS THIS AN UNUSUAL THING TO DO? MR. D: KINDA, YES, I THINK IT WAS... GENERALLY, UP IN THIS COUNTRY, THE MEN UP HERE WAS PRETTY HARD WORKERS. THEY'D MAKE A LIVING, YOU KNOW, IF THEY COULD. MS. K: DID YOU HAVE ANY SISTERS? MR. D: ANY SISTERS? MS. K: HOW WERE THEY RAISED COMPARED TO YOU? MR. D: OH, THEY ALL GOT GOOD SCHOOLING. FOUR. THEY ALL WENT TO SCHOOL. YEP, THEY ALL WENT CLEAR THROUGH HIGH WENT TO COLLEGE. SCHOOL, AND ONE OF THEM SO THEY GOT GOOD EDUCATION. DAD WAS A PRETTY GOOD PROVIDER; HE COULD MAKE IT. MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO WHEN THEY WERE SMALL, WHEN THEY WERE GROWING UP? MR. D: WHAT KIND OF CHORES DID THEY DO? HELP WITH THE HOUSEWORK, WASH CLOTHES [l AUGHs ] AND BAKE BREAD. YOU KNOW, THEY LEARNED ALL THAT STUFF THEY HAD TO DO. MS. K: DID 'THEY EVER GO OUT HUNTING OR LEARN TO USE A GUN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? MR. D: THE YOUNGEST ONE DID, YES. MY YOUNGEST SISTER WAS JUST ABOUT AS GOOD A HUNTER AS THEY COME. TRAINED HER, YOU KNOW. ’COURSE I AND MY BROTHER, WE WE TOOK HER HUNTING WITH US, AND GO IN THE BRUSH AND PUT HER SOMEWHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY’D BE BIG OLD BUCK WOULD COME OUT, AND BY GOD SHE’D BETTER GET HIM, TOO, OR W E ’D GIVE HER HELL. jjLAUGHs] MS. K: WELL, DID SHE? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE SIXTEEN MR. D: YOU BET SHE DID. I REMEMBER THE FIRST BUCK SHE KILLED. AH, (3C Min3 HE WAS A JUMBO. SHE JUST CRIED, "BOO HOO HOO, DID I KILL THE POOR THING?" I SAID, "YOU BET YOU DID." GREAT BIG OLD BUCK. [LAUGHS] SHE FINALLY LEARNED TO BE A GOOD HUNTER. MS. K: WAS THAT UNUSUAL? MR. D: THAT WAS UNUSUAL, YES. MS. K: YOUR MOTHER, HOW DID SHE FEEL ABOUT THAT? MR. D: OH, SHE DIDN'T LIKE IT MUCH, BUT SHE COULDN'T DO MUCH ABOUT IT. HELL, WE'D GET OUT AND HUNT AND GET SOME MEAT. MS. K: WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE YOUROTHERSISTERS MR. D: MMM, GOD, THEY DIDN'T WANT TOGO, THEY WOULDN'T. WITH YOU. MS. K: OUT TO HUNT? THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HUNT. THE LITTLE ONE, SHE WOULD; THEY LEARN GOOD, YOU KNOW. SHE'D GO HUNTING THEY DO, THEY LEARN. WERE THERE ANY OTHER OUTSTANDING WOMEN OR JUST ORDINARY WOMEN? THEY PROBABLY HAD TO BE PRETTY OUTSTANDING, ANYWAY. MR. D: THEY WERE, THEY WERE, YEP, THEY WERE. OH, THEM HOUSEWIVES, BY GOD, THEY WORKED HARD, BECAUSE NOTHING LIKE YOU GOT NOWADAYS. YOU GRAB A SACK OF CLOTHES, GO IN AND DUMP THEM IN THE WASHING MACHINE, THROW THEM IN THE DRYER, AND YOU GO DOWN, AND THEY'RE DONE. AND YOU GOT MOST OF THIS MATERIAL NOW SO THAT IT'S.., YOU JUST HANG THEM UP, AND THEY'RE ALREADY IRONED, YOU KNOW. MS. K: WERE THERE CERTAIN THINGS THAT WERE CONSIDERED WOMEN'S WORK AND MEN'S WORK? MR. D: WOMEN WEREN'T OUTSIDE MUCH. NO, THEY DIDN'T GET OUT IN THE YARD AND THE BARNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. HOUSE THAT WAS THEIR PLACE THEY STAYED IN ' T E .H �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE SEVENTEEN MS. K WHAT WAS THE CLOSEST TOWN? MR. D YEAH, YEAH, GUFFEY. MS. K HOW BIG WAS IT THEN? MR. D IT WAS ABOUT TWO HUNDRED, AND THEN IT FADED AWAY. MS. K HOW OFTEN DO YOU THINK THOSE WOMEN GOT TO COME INTO TOWN? MR. D THEY'D COME IN ONCE A WEEK. THEY GOT CARS; WAS THIS THE CLOSEST TOWN? PRETTY NEAR ONCE A WEEK. AND THEY FINALLY GOT CARS UP IN THIS COUNTRY. AND THEN THEY HAD TO BUILD ROADS SO THAT THEY COULD GET OVER THEM WITH THE CARS. PRETTY BAD ROADS AT ONE TIME, [?) ROADS. BUT, HELL, THEY FINALLY GOT UP CARS. EVER SAW. IT WAS A MAXWELL. I REMEMBER THE FIRST CAR I ” FUNNY LOOKING THING TO ME, AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER IT WOULD RUN OR NOT. [ AUGHs ] IF A FELLOW l WOULD GO DOWN HILL, IT WOULD GO LIKE HELL, AND THEN IT WOULDN’T COME UP HILL VERY FAST. ^LAUGHs] BUT YOU SURE COULD GO DOWNHILL FAST. MS. K: DID YOU EVER KNOW ANY WOMEN OUTSIDE OF THE LAW? MR. D: OH GOD, YES. MS. K: IN WHAT WAYS? MR. D: THEY WERE PRETTY ROUGH. WE HAD A LOT OF THEM. LIKE THOSE THREE THAT HOMESTEADED UP HERE. AND BY GOD, THREE FELLOWS BETTER GO TO VISIT THEM, BECAUSE, IF ONE WENT, BY GOD, THEY'D ROB HIM. MS. K: DID THE PEOPLE EVER TAKE THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS, OR DID THE SHERIFF CONTROL THAT, OR DID THEY LEAVE THE WOMEN ALONE? MR. D: LET 'EM ALONE. [ AUGHs ] l MS. K: DO YOU THINK IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE WOMEN? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE EIGHTEEN MR. D: NO, I THINK IT WAS JUST THAT HE, YOU KNOW, PASS THE BUCK. THE HELL. AH, LET THEM ALONE AS LONG AS THEY WEREN'T RAISING TOO MUCH HELL, WELL, LET THEM ALONE. [l AUGHs] MS. K: SO IT WAS PRETTY UNCOMMON TO SEE WOMEN IN JAIL. MR. D: YEAH, THOSE THREE, THOSE THREE GALS, THEY WERE ROUGH! AND, OF COURSE, A GUY WOULD FEEL SO GOD DAMN CHEAP THAT HE WOULDN’T SAY NOTHING AND WOULDN'T GO BACK AGAIN. A THING ABOUT IT, SEE. BUT YOU WOULDN'T SAY YOU'D*JUST KEEP STILL. BECAUSE, HELL, THEY'D ROB YOU, DAMN THEY WERE TOUGH. jjLAUGHSf MS. K: SO WHEN A WOMAN WAS MARRIED AND HAD A LOT OF CHILDREN AND HER HUSBAND DIED, DID SHE USUALLY STAY OR DID SHE LEAVE? MR. D: OH, PROBABLY GET HITCHED AGAIN, GET MARRIED AGAIN, YEAH. MS. K: HERE? MR. D: OH, MAYBE HERE, YES. BECAUSE AS I SAY, THERE WAS LOTS OF BACHELORS IN THIS COUNTRY. THERE WAS LOTS OF BACHELORS. MS. K: DID PEOPLE EVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SINGLE WOMEN OR WIDOWED WOMEN? MR. D: NO, THEY WOULDN'T. THEY HAD A LOT OF RESPECT FOR WOMEN, YOU KNOW. MS. K: DID THEY EVER HELP THEM OUT? MR. D: YES, THEY WOULD. THEY'D HELP THEM OUT__ OH, MRS. LANDERS, HER "'HUSBAND DIED, AND BY GOD, SHE HAD THAT RANCH OUT THERE, AND YOU KNOW, MY GOD, SHE LEASED IT ON SHARES. SO MUCH PER CENT, YOU KNOW, CROP, CROP LEASE, JUST LEASED IT. MADE PRETTY GOOD. SHE DONE ALL RIGHT. AND SHE BECAUSE MY OLD DAD AND I LEASED IT, AND WE RAISED I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TONS OF �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE NINETEEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) POTATOES. AND BY GOD SHE DONE ALL RIGHT ON THAT; DON'T THINK SHE DIDN'T. 'COURSE SHE HAD A BROTHER OVER THERE ON LONE CHIMNEY, WHAT THEY CALL LONE CHIMNEY. AND HE'D COME OVER, AND HE HELPED HER. AND THEN THERE WAS MRS. WITCHER, YOU KNOW, THE LOWELL WITCHER RANCH. MRS. WITCHER, SHE WAS A WIDOW, AND BY GOD, SHE HAD A FOREMAN. SHE HAD A CATTLE OUTFIT SHE HAD A FOREMAN. MS. K: AND HE TOOK CARE OF THE RANCH? MR. D: YEAH. THERE WAS LOTS OF TIMES THE FOREMAN GOT TO BE PRETTY GODDAMN SHADY, YOU KNOW. LAUGHS BUT HE WAS A GOOD GUY. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS A RELATIVE OF HER OR NOT, BUT SEEMS LIKE SHE NEVER HAD TROUBLE WITH HIM. MS. K: DO YOU THINK SHE WAS STILL PRETTY MUCH THE BOSS, OR DID SHE GO ALONG WITH... MR. D: WHATEVER HE SAID, YES. WELL, HE MADE HER MONEY, ANYHOW. HE MIGHT HAVE FILLED HIS POCKETS, TOO, BUT ANYHOW HE MADE HER MONEY. HE WAS A PRETTY GOOD GUY...OH, AND A LOT OF THOSE WOMEN, THEIR HUSBAND WOULD DIE OR SOMETHING, AND THEY'D LEASE THE RANCH, LEASE IT OUT AND MOVE TO TOWN. MS. K: WHICH TOWN? MR. D: CANON, OR SOME TOWN, COLORADO SPRINGS. MOVE TO TOWN AND LEASE THE RANCH...SO MUCH OF THE CROP, OR ELSE THEY'D LEASE FOR CASH, MS. K: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE GENERAL ATTITUDE TOWARD WOMAN WAS AMONG MEN AT THE TIME OF YOUR GRANDPARENTS OR YOUR PARENTS? MR. D: OH, THEY, I WOULDN'T KNOW. THING. THEY NEVER LET THE WOMEN RUN THE THEY'D RUN IT THEMSELVES. LIKE ROWE OVER HERE, HE, �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY MR. D: (CONTINUED) THE MAN I WORKED FOR FOR SO MANY YEARS, THAT CATTLEMAN. GOD DANG HIS WIFE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER HE HAD TEN DOLLARS IN THE BANK OR FIFTY THOUSAND. HE NEVER TOLD HER ONE THING OF HIS BUSINESS. MS. K: WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK? MR. D: I COULD NEVER TELL UNLESS HE DIDN'T WANT HIS BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, 0 O K fn .] PUBLISHED...AND THERE WAS ONE WOMAN DOWN HERE, GUY, THAT FOSTER'S WIFE, FOSTER MARRIED HER AND GOD DANG, THE FIRST YEAR, YOU KNOW, HERE COME THE ASSESSOR. OF CATTLE. FOSTER HAD QUITE A FEW HEAD HERE COME THE OLD ASSESSOR, TAX ASSESSOR, AND HE COME IN, AND HE'D EAT DINNER AND HE SAID, "FOSTER, HOW MANY CATTLE HAVE YOU GOT?" WELL, FOSTER CUT HIS HERD DOWN AND TOLD HIM HE ONLY HAD A HUNDRED HEAD. HUNDRED HEAD. WELL, HE HAD THREE OR FOUR "OH", HE SAID, "I JUST GOT A HUNDRED HEAD", AND THAT WOMAN, HIS WIFE, SPOKE UP AND SAID, "OH, MY GOD, GUY, WE GOT TWICE THAT MANY CATTLE!" [l AUGHTEr / THAT REALLY GOT HIM IN JACK POT, YOU KNOW. THAT'S WHY ROWE, HE WOULDN'T TELL HER A THING, SHE NEVER KNEW NOTHING. HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. ONE ANOTHER. WHEN HE DIED, HE LEFT A AND HER, THEY DIED WITHIN A WEEK OF HER PART WENT TO THE JEWISH HOSPITAL IN DENVER OR SOMETHING UP THERE, AND HIS PART WENT TO BOYS TOWN, SOMEWHERE. MS. K: DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR GRANDMOTHER, EITHER ONE OF YOUR GRAND­ MOTHERS, HAD ANY EDUCATION? MR. D: ONE DIDN'T, BUT THE OTHER ONE DID. MS. K: HOW ABOUT YOUR MOTHER? MR. D: MOTHER HAD A GOOD EDUCATION, YES. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-ONE MS. K: WHERE DID SHE GET IT? MR. D: OH, THERE WAS A SCHOOL, BLACK MOUNTAIN, IN THERE, MS. K: HOW MANY KIDS WERE IN THAT SCHOOL AT THAT TIME, DO YOU KNOW? MR. D: IN THE LITTLE TOWN, THERE [ALHAMBRA, NEAR GUFFEy ) DOZEN. YEAH. TEACHERS. PROBABLY A DOZEN KIDS, YOU KNOW. MS. K: AND THEY HIRED A SCHOOL TEACHER JUST FOR A DOZEN KIDS? MR. D: OH YES. MS. K: AND THE SCHOOL TEACHER, WAS IT A WOMAN? MR. D: UMM HMM. MS. K: WAS SHE SINGLE? MR. D: UMM HMM. MS. K: HOW DID SHE LIVE? MR. D: OH, SHE BOARDED WITH SOME OF THE, WELL, HAD THIS SCHOOL YOU BET. WHERE DID SHE LIVE? TEACHER DOWN HERE. SHE TAUGHT DOWN NEAR GROVES, AND SHE BOARDED RIGHT THERE. SHE HAD HER OWN ROOM AND EVERYTHING. SHE BOARDED RIGHT THERE. MS. K: HOW WERE THEY TREATED? HOW WERE SCHOOL TEACHERS THOUGHT OF? MR. D: THOUGHT OF GOOD. MS. K: WAS IT COMMON FOR A WOMAN LIKE YOUR MOTHER TO GO TO SCHOOL? MR. D: YEAH, SHE'D GO. DECENT, REALLY GOOD. YEAH, SHE WENT. SHE WENT QUITE A WAYS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE SHE HAD A PRETTY GOOD EDUCATION. THAN AVERAGE. YEP, MORE THAN AVERAGEj EVEN GO. MS. K: WHY, DO YOU THINK? MR. D: AH, DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED IT. MS. K WHO DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED IT? VERY, FAR MORE A LOT OF THEM DIDN'T �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-TWO MR. D: AH, THEM OLD WOMEN, I SUPPOSE. THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO. AND MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE AND FOR THAT, MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD THE CHANCE...NO, I DIDN'T GO. I DIDN'T GO AT ALL, HARDLY. I WENT THROUGH FIFTH GRADE, AND I THOUGHT I KNEW MORE THAN THE TEACHER. I QUIT. [LAUGHTER] GOOD DEAL, HUH. MS. K: WERE THERE ANY WOMEN CATTLE RANCHERS? WHEN THEY TOOK UP A SECTION OF LAND, DID THEY PUT CATTLE ON? MR. D: OH, A FEW OF THEM WOULD GET SOME COWS, YES. THEY COULD HANDLE, YES. HOW MUCH CATTLE NOW, SIS GREEN, SHE WAS A CATTLEWOMAN. SHE HAD QUITE AN OUTFIT, QUITE A BIT OF LAND DOWN THERE IN BEAR HILLS, YOU KNOW. SIS GREEN, SHE WAS QUITE A CATTLEWOMAN, CATTLE. HER DAD LEFT HER WITH HIS CATTLE; YOU KNOW, HE WILLED THEM, WILLED ALL OF HIS CATTLE AND ALL THAT LAND, AND BY GOD, SHE DONE ALL RIGHT, SIS GREEN DID. MS. K: DID SHE DO A LOT OF THE ACTUAL WORK? MR. D: NO, SHE'D HIRE IT DONE. HIRE IT. AND COME THE ROUND UP, WHY THEY'D ALL, WELL THEY'D BRAND HER CALVES, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'D SEE A CALF OF HERS. HELL, THEY'D BRAND IT FOR HER. MS. K: YOU MEAN OTHER COWBOYS THAT WORKED FOR DIFFERENT RANCHES? MR. D: YEAH, ANY, ANY COWBOY. HAD THE ROUND UP, YOU KNOW, AND HAD SOME OF HER CATTLE IN THERE AND LITTLE CALVES. WHY, DRAG THEM OUT AND BRAND THEM SIS GREEN. MS. K: DO YOU THINK THAT IF THEY HAD BELONGED TO A MAN THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT THE COWS AND BRANDED THEM FOR THEIR OWN, OR WOULD HAVE BRAN­ DED THEM FOR THE OTHER RANCHER? MR. D: THEY'D BRAND THEM FOR THE OTHER RANCHER. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-THREE MS. K: WOULD THEY? MR. D: YEAH. PRETTY SQUARE, PRETTY SQUARE, THERE. THEY'D BETTER BRAND WHATEVER BRAND WAS ON THE COW, OR YOU'D GET IN TROUBLE. BUT SIS GREEN USED TO COME OUT ONCE IN A WHILE ON THE ROUND UP. SHOW UP AND TALK TO SOME OF THOSE FOREMEN, YOU KNOW, AND TELL "IF, WELL, YOU SEE ANY OF MY"- "WELL, W E ’LL BRAND THEM £46 M m 3 FOR YOU." END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY APRIL 14, 1979 TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-FOUR MR. D: THERE WAS A YOUNG LADY TOOK UP A HOMESTEAD ON, AHEAD OF, NEAR WAUGH MOUNTAIN, WAY OVER IN THERE, AND SHE WAS ABOUT TWENTY-ONE, AND SHE, HER AND HER FOLKS LIVED THERE. HER FOLKS LIVED ABOUT FIVE MILES THIS SIDE OF WHERE SHE TOOK UP HER HOMESTEAD. WAS TWENTY-ONE. FOR PASTURE. SHE SO ROWE, THAT'S THE BOSS, HE LEASED HER LAND I'D GO OVER THERE EVERY SO OFTEN TO LOOK ABOUT THE CATTLE, YOU KNOW, IN SUMMER. I'D GO THROUGH THE OLD FELLOW AND THE OLD LADIES' PLACE AND BOY, IF YOU GO IN THERE, AND YOU HAD TO CHECK, YOU KNOW, TELL HER, "YEAH, I'M GOING IN THE BUILDING AND LOOK ABOUT THE COWS." AND BY GOD, YOU BETTER BE OUT OF THERE, TOO, IN THE EVENING OR THEY'D COME LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WAS THE MATTER. [l AUGHe LILLIAN WAS A GOOD SCOUT. T] FINALLY, OUR CATTLE GOT TO GETTING OFF IN WHAT THEY CALL DEVIL'S HOLE. THERE'S A BIG HOLE IN THERE. GOD THEY CUT OFF DOWN AT THE RIVER. YOU GO OFF THERE AND BY SO WE DECIDED THAT WE WOULD BUILD A FENCE UP ON TOP THERE ALONG SO THEY COULDN'T GET DOWN IN. YEP, THEY WERE BOTH BUILDING, YEAH, THEY WERE FAVORABLE. I WENT OVER THERE TO BUILD A FENCE. EVERY DAY. SHE'D BRING US LUNCH A FELLOW DIDN'T HAVE TO BRING A LUNCH. AND SHE'D PUT NAIL STAPLES ON THE FENCE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, YOU KNOW. SHE WAS A PRETTY GOOD SCOUT. WHEN SHE PROVED UP, SHE SOLD HER PLACE AND MOVED TO CANON AND BOUGHT A BEAUTY PARLOR. SHE WENT TO, SHE LEASED IT OUT AND LET PEOPLE OPERATE ITT AND SHE GUARDED AT THE PRISON. MATRON, MATRON AT THE PRISON. I �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-FIVE MR. D : ' (CONTINUED) DON'T KNOW WHAT EVER BECAME OF HER. DEAD BY NOW. TIME AGO. I'M POSITIVE SHE MIGHT BE DEAD. SHE MIGHT BE THAT WAS A LONG AND OVER IN, WELL, BEULAH BEELER, HER AND HER MOTHER AND BROTHER, THEY WERE UP HERE AT BLACK MOUNTAIN. BEULAH HOMESTEADED, SO DID THE BROTHER. SHE HOMESTEADED, THEY TOOK UP LAND. AND MY GOD, THE BROTHER, HE WASN'T MAKING MONEY FAST ENOUGH, SO HE THOUGHT HE'D RUSTLE A FEW COWS. OH GOD, HE GOT CAUGHT. [l a u g h s ] THEY SENT HIM DOWN HERE TO THE SLAMMER, CANON, THE PEN. AND HE. WASN'T IN THERE NO TIME AND HE WENT HAYWIRE AND THEY TOOK HIM TO PUEBLO AND PUT HIM IN THE ASYLUM. AND THE OLD LADY, SHE JUST, FINALLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE GOT HIM OUT OF THERE, BUT SHE GOT HIM OUT OF THERE SOME WAY. BROUGHT HIM UP THERE AND LOCKED HIM IN THE, PUT HIM IN THE CABIN THERE, AND CHAINED HIM TO THE WALL, AND HE WAS THERE FOR TWELVE YEARS. MS. K: HE NEVER WENT OUTSIDE? MR. D: NO, NO, SHE JUST CHAINED HIM THERE. AND FINALLY, BY GOD, THE SISTER DIED, AND SHE TOLD THEM WHEN SHE WAS SICK, "YOU BETTER GET UP AND GET MY BROTHER OUT OF THAT BLACK MOUNTAIN COUNTRY." AND THEY WENT UP THERE, THE SHERIFF DID, AND THEY FOUND HIM AND HE WAS CHAINED TO THAT BUILDING. THE OLD LADY WAS THERE, YOU KNOW, SHE’D FEED HIM LIKE YOU WOULD AN ANIMAL, YOU KNOW. FINALLY GOT HIM OUT OF THERE AND TOOK HIM TO FAIRPLAY. FAIRPLAY, THEY TOOK HIM BACK DOWN TO THE ASYLUM. THEY FROM AND MY GOD, THOSE DOCTORS GOT AFTER HIM AND IT WASN'T NO TIME TIL HE WAS OUT MOWING THE LAWNS AND TRIMMING HEDGES. HE'D OF GOT ALL RIGHT IF SHE'D HAVE TAKEN HIM TO A DOCTOR INSTEAD OF LOCKING HIM IN. HE'D OF GOT ALL RIGHT, YOU KNOW. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-SIX MS. K: DID ANYBODY KNOW THAT HE'D BEEN MISSING? MR. D: EVERYBODY KNEW IT, BUT THEY FIGURED IT WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW. OWN BUSINESS. IN TROUBLE. BUSINESS." IN THEM DAYS, BY GOD, YOU TENDED TO YOUR YOU'D BETTER, BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D GET YOU KNOW, THEY FIGURE, WELL, "THAT'S NOT MY WE KNEW HE WAS THERE. PEOPLE DID, YOU KNOW, THEY KNEW HE WAS THERE BUT FIGURED THEY'D BETTER TEND TO THEIR OWN CSOM'a.3 BUSINESS. THAT WAS IT. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK SHE DID THAT? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. SHE WAS CRAZY. SHE DIDN'T WANT HIM IN THAT ASYLUM, SO SHE BROUGHT HIM HOME. MS. K: SHE WOULDN'T LET HIM OUT AT ALL? MR. D: HE WAS CHAINED. LOCKED HIM UP. HE WAS CHAINED TO THE WALL. SO THEY JUST BURNED THE BUILDING DOWN AND TOOK HER TO FAIRPLAY. OLD LADY DIED AFTER SHE GOT TO FAIRPLAY. AH, THE SHE COULDN'T LIVE UP THERE BY HERSELF, SO THEY JUST TOOK HER UP TO FAIRPLAY AND PUT" HER IN A HOSPITAL AND SHE DIDN’ LIVE LONG. T QUITE A BIT OF LAND UP THERE. SHE DIED. THEY HAD I THINK THREE OR FOUR SECTIONS. SEE, THE BOY FILED ON LAND AND THE OLD LADY FILED ON LAND, AND THE GIRL FILED ON LAND AND THEY HAD QUITE A BIT OF LAND. MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO WITH IT? MR. D: THEY SOLD IT TO PERKINS. A FELLOW BY THE NAME OF PERKINS BOUGHT IT. MS. K: DID THEY FARM IT WHILE THEY WERE LIVING THERE? MR. D: YEAH, THEY FARMED, OH YOU BET THEY FARMED. THEY RAISED POTATOES, GEEZ, BY THE TONS. AND HAY, YOU KNOW, JUST TONS OF POTATOES. AND THEY HAD MILK COWS, PIGS AND STUFF LIKE THAT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-SEVEN MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT THE LADY THAT BUILT THE COVER MOUNTAIN LODGE? MR. D: OH, YEAH, THAT WAS BARBARA, BARBARA GLAZE. LODGE ABOUT 1930. SHE DIVORCED GLAZE. A FELLOW NAME OF GLAZE. SHE WAS MARRIED TO HIM, AND SHE WAS WEALTHY. WAS WEALTHY. YEAH, SHE BUILT THAT THE OLD WOMAN SHE COME OUT HERE, AND OLD GLAZE, HE HAD A HARNESS SHOP IN THE SPRINGS. 'COURSE SHE WENT THERE TO HAVE A DOG HARNESS FIXED AND OF COURSE HE WAS QUITE A LADIES' MAN. HE WAS A GOER. BY GOD, SHE MARRIED HIM AND THEY MOVED UP HERE ON THIRTY ONE CREEK. BOUGHT THREE, FOUR THOUSAND ACRES OF LAND IN THERE AND HIM AND HER COULDN'T GET ALONG, SO SHE DIVORCED HIM. WENT OUT TO NEVADA AND STAYED OUT THERE SIX WEEKS AND GOT HER DIVORCE. AND SHE CAME BACK AND BOUGHT THIS LAND ON COVER MOUNTAIN, BUILT THAT LODGE, AND IT WAS A BIG ONE, A BIG OLD LODGE. A GOOD ONE. WELL, SHE RAISED A FEW HORSES AND FINALLY GOT TIRED OF IT AND SOLD IT. YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. MS. K: WHAT DID SHE USE IT FOR? MR. D: OH, JUST TO SHOW, YOU KNOW. MS. K: SHE DIDN'T HAVE PEOPLE LIVING IN IT THEN? MR. D: SHE LIVED IN IT HERSELF. END OF THE FRONT ROOM. GIVE PARTIES THERE. GOD, IT HAD A FIREPLACE IN EACH BIG FIREPLACE, IT WAS A BIG ROOM. YEAH, SHE GAVE SOME WONDERFUL PARTIES. FINALLY, SHE GOT A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH. THE DEPRESSION. SHE'D THAT WAS DURING THAT WAS A LOT OF MONEY THEN, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH. SHE GAVE THAT PLACE OUT THERE ON THIRTY ONE CREEK, SHE JUST GAVE IT TO GLAZE JUST GAVE IT TO HIM AND �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-EIGHT MR. D: (CONTINUED) TOOK OFF. HE DIED LAST, LAST MONTH. HE DIED, HE WAS IN CANON CITY. I SEEN WHERE HE WAS AN OLD MAN, EIGHTY YEARS OLD PRETTY NEAR, AND HE DIED. SHE'D BE WAY UP IN HER SEVENTIES. SHE WENT BACK EAST, YOU KNOW. WENT BACK TO HER FOLKS. HER MOTHER TOLD HER IF SHE MARRIED ANOTHER WESTERNER, SHE'D QUIT HER. BY GOD, SHE MARRIED ANOTHER WESTERNER, SO HER MOTHER QUIT HER. AND WHEN HER MOTHER DIED, SHE WENT BACK, YOU KNOW, AND SHE GOT ALL THAT MONEY. HOW THEY DO. OUT WEST. MS. K: HER MOTHER WAS WEALTHY. SHE HAD A SISTER. YOU KNOW THE SISTER, SHE DIDN'T COME SHE JUST STAYED BACK THERE. WHEN DID BARBARA GLAZE COME OUT? CSS M in d MR. D: 1926. ABOUT THAT TIME. CATTLE. SHE BOUGHT SOME CATTLE, A BUNCH OF HE DIDN'T HAVE A DAMN THING. HE WAS JUST WORTHLESS. HE DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING, BUT SHE BOUGHT HIM CATTLE AND HORSES AND ALL THOSE THINGS. HIS CATTLE. FINALLY, THEY GOT ME TO HELP HIM BRAND WENT UP THERE TO HELP HIM BRAND HIS CATTLE; COME A DRIZZLY RAIN. YOU COULDN'T BRAND THE COWS. IN "TO HELL", I TOLD HIM, I SAYS, "YOU CAN'T BRAND CATTLE IN THIS KIND OF WEATHER", I SAYS, "WAIT TIL THE SUN COMES OUT AND THE CATTLE DRY OFF. BECAUSE YOU TRY TO BRAND THOSE OLD COWS AND THEIR HAIR WILL MAT." YOU KNOW. YOU COULDN'T BRAND THEM, JUST SCALD IT ON, HE DIDN'T KNOW. HE THOUGHT HE KNEW, BUT HE DIDN'T. HE WAS WORTHLESS--- GLAZE. MS. K: I'M GOING TO BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT AND ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR MOTHER. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-NINE MR. D: MOTHER? MS. K: YES. YOU SAID THAT, YOU'D MENTIONED BEFORE ABOUT THE CHIEF THAT CAME INTO HER HOUSE. MR. D: THAT'S GRANDMOTHER. CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT? MY GRANDMOTHER DELL, HELL, THE INDIANS WOULD COME TO HER HOUSE. SHE'D BAKE BREAD. GIVE THEM A LOAF OF BREAD, AND THEY'D GO. [l AUGHS] YOU HAD TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING, OR BY GOD, THEY'D HANG AROUND FOREVER. MS. K: THEY'D JUST COME RIGHT IN THE HOUSE? MR. D: OH YEAH, IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE DOOR LOCKED, THEY'D WALK RIGHT IN. THEY THOUGHT, THEY DIDN'T KNOW ( AUGHs] OR LOOK IN AT THE l WINDOW AND THEN COME IN... GRANDFATHER DOUGLAS, HE KNEW CHIEF DOUGLAS. THAT'S HOW CHIEF DOUGLAS GOT HIS, HE TOOK THAT NAME OF DOUGLAS BECAUSE GRANDFATHER WAS GOOD TO HIM, YOU KNOW, HE WAS GOOD TO THOSE INDIANS. AND YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO BE LIKE HIM, YOU KNOW, THEY THOUGHT HE WAS NICE. WELL, ONE OF THOSE CHIEFS, ONE OF THOSE YOUNG FELLOWS, TOOK THE NAME OF DOUGLAS. SO THEY CALLED HIM CHIEF DOUGLAS. MS. K: WHAT KIND OF INDIANS WERE THEY? MR. D: UTES. OH, THAT INDIAN THOUGHT THAT WAS AN AWFUL GOOD NAME. DOUGLAS. SO HE WENT BY THE NAME OF CHIEF DOUGLAS. I GUESS HE WAS IN ON THAT MEEKER DEAL OVER THERE. I KNOW CHIEF DOUGLAS HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT. MS. K: WAS YOUR GRANDMOTHER EVER AFRAID OF THESE INDIANS COMING INTO HER HOME? MR. D: SHE WASN'T AFRAID OF THEM, NO. I GUESS. SHE JUST GOT ALONG WITH THEM, JUST BE ALONE AND HAVE A DAMN INDIAN OR TWO WALK IN, YOU WOULDN' KNOW WHAT TO DO. \LAUGHS 1 T �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY MS. K: DID SHE EVER ASSOCIATE WITH ANY OF THE INDIAN WOMEN? MR. D: NO, SHE WOULDN'T. SHE WOULDN'T THEY KNEW COLORAW AWFUL WELL. ASSOCIATE WITH THEM. COLORAW, HETD JUST MAKE HIS ROUNDS AND COME UP CURRENT CREEK, AND WHEREVER HE HAPPENED TO BE, HE'D STOP, AND HE LIKED BISCUITS AND BEANS. [LAUGHS] THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO EAT, BISCUITS AND BEANS. GRANDMA SAID YOU ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE A KETTLE OF BEANS COOKED BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T TELL WHEN THAT OLD DEVIL WAS GOING TO SHOW UP. HE'D DEMAND BISCUITS AND BEANS. [LAUGHsJ MS. K: YOU THINK THAT YOUR GRANDMOTHER AND MOTHER, DO YOU THINK THEY LIKED LIVING OUT HERE? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU THINK THEY WERE HAPPY? THEY PROBABLY HAD TO BE. THEY COULDN'T DO MUCH ELSE, I GUESS. MS. K: WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR MOTHER? MR. D: AH, SHE DIED. HAD A HEART ATTACK. THAT WAS BEFORE THEY WAS UO M'l-'CI SO MANY OF THEM. EVERYDAY THEY HAVE HEART ATTACKS, BUT THEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE MANY OF THEM. WOULD HAVE A HEART ATTACK. ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE SOMEBODY NOW, BY GOD, THAT'S JUST AN EVERYDAY OCCURRENCE. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK SHE HAD A HEART ATTACK? MR. D: I WOULDN'T KNOW. A LITTLE TOO FAT. SHE QUIT WORKING SO HARD, AND I THINK SHE GOT THAT COULD HAVE BROUGHT IT ON, YOU KNOW. SHE FINALLY GOT SO SHE DIDN'T WORK HARD NO MORE. QUIT. SHE JUST AH, SHE MADE QUIETS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT THAT HARD r WORK, SHE JUST QUIT AND I THINK SHE GOT NOT ACTIVE AND NOT GET OUT AND GO AND DO ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF LIKE SHE DID. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-ONE MS: K: SO SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK AS HARD ANYMORE? MR. D: OH NO, AS SHE GOT OLDER, WE ALL SEEN THAT SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK AS HARD. MS. K: DID YOU AND YOUR SISTERS TAKE OVER HER CHORES? MR. D: AH, MY SISTERS GOT HITCHED AS QUICK AS THEY COULD. GOT THE HELL AWAY. YOU KNOW, GET AWAY. MS. K: DIDN'T THEY LIKE IT HERE? MR. D: OH LORD NO. MS. K: WHY NOT? MR. D: [LAUGHS^] I DON'T - KNOW. THEY JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT HERE. YOU SEE LOTS OF YOUNG WOMEN THAT LIKES IT HERE. NOW THAT'S UN­ USUAL, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE BACK IN MY TIME, MY GOD, SHE'D TELL YOU "YES, LET'S GO TO TOWN." MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WAS? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. JUST DIDN'T HAVE TO STAY UP HERE IN THE COUNTRY. ALL OF THEM WOULD LEAVE, GO TO TOWN. BETTER THEY LIKE IT. THE BIGGER TOWN, THE FELLOWS, THEY DIDN'T CARE. THEY'D STAY UP HERE. MS. K: WHO LIVED LONGER, THE MEN OR THE WOMEN? MR. D: THE WOMEN. MS. K: WHY IS THAT? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. LIVE LONGER. MS. K: THEY DO RIGHT NOW. YEAH, RIGHT NOW, THE WOMEN SEEMS LIKE IT. LOOKING BACK ON THE WAY THINGS WERE FOR YOU AND YOUR SISTERS, IF YOU COULD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AND HAD THE CHOICE, WOULD YOU HAVE RATHER BEEN A GIRL OR A BOY IN THE WAY YOU WERE RAISED? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-TWO MR. D: BOY. MS. K: HOW COME? MR. D: AH, GOD YOU WERE MORE SUITABLE FOR THE COUNTRY. THEY'D GET OUT AND THEY WERE MORE SUITABLE. COULD COOK. AND ALL OF US CHRIST ALMIGHTY, THEY'D COME OUT TO VISIT ME ON THE RANCH AND MY GOD, I'D DU ALL THE COOKING. THE COOKING. [ AUGHs! NO, l I ’D DO ALL MAKE THE BISCUITS, FRY THE STEAK AND POTATOES. I'D TELL THEM IF THEY WANTED A SALAD THEY HAD TO BRING THEIR OWN STUFF TO MAKE THEIR OWN SALAD BECAUSE I WASN'T MUCH FOR THAT. I'D FRY THE ROAST BEEF AND FRY A STEAK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND MAKE GRAVY, BISCUITS, COFFEE AND BUTTER. I ALWAYS HAD BUTTER FROM MY MILK COWS, AND W E 'D HAVE MILK TO DRINK OR COFFEE OR WHATEVER YOU WANT. GOD DANG, THEY'D COME OUT THERE AND THEY'D EAT AND EAT AND EAT. ^LAUGHS] MS. K DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER TO HAVE BEEN A BOY? MR. D YES, IT WAS. MS. K IN WHAT WAYS? MR. D OH, LOTS OF WAYS. YOU KNOW. YOU WERE JUST MORE SUITABLE TO THE COUNTRY, A GIRL, HELL, THEY COULDN'T, AH, THEY WANTED TO GO TO TOWN WHERE IT WAS NICE AND ALL THAT STUFF, YOU KNOW. THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PACK WATER AND DIDN'T HAVE TO PACK WOOD. /^LAUGHS MS. K: THEY DIDN'T? MR. D: NOT IN TOWN...AND UP HERE THEY'D HAVE TO, IF A FELLOW WASN'T L M *<0 J AROUND, THEY'D HAVE TO GET WOOD THEMSELVES BY GOD. I GUESS THEY LEARNED TO CUT WOOD AS GOOD AS A MAN DOES. OR GO COLD, FREEZE OUT. EITHER THAT MY SISTERS, THEY GOT OUT, THEY GOT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-THREE MR. D: (CONTINUED) OUT AS QUICK AS THEY COULD. THEY, ONE AT A TIME, WOULD GO. MS. K: WHERE ARE THEY NOW? MR. D: AH, ONE IS IN ARKANSAS, AND THE OTHER ONE, SHE'S IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA, SHE WAS, AND I GOT A COUPLE DOWN HERE IN CANON CITY. THEY WOUND UP AT CANON CITY. CALIFORNIA FOR YEARS. THEY WERE UP IN NEVADA AND ONE'S GOT TWO DAUGHTERS THAT'S GOT DAUGHTERS. MS. K: WELL, CHARLIE, CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? MR. D: WELL, LORI, I DON'T KNOW, ITS A, THAT'S ABOUT ALL THE WOMEN I KNEW. YOU KNOW, I KNEW A LOT OF THEM, BUT THOSE THAT HOMESTEADED, THAT'S THE MAIN THING, YOU KNOW. HOMESTEADED AND STUFF LIKE THAT. ROUGH TIMES. THEM THAT THEY WENT THROUGH PRETTY THEY'D COME IN HERE AND HAD A HUSBAND, WHY, HELL, HE'D MAKE THEM A LIVING. OR SOME DAMN THING. HE'D DO SOMETHING, A MINER WORK IN THE MINES OR WORK ON THE RANCH. RANCH JOBS WAS AWFUL, TOO CHEAP OF WAGES FOR A MARRIED MAN. HE JUST COULDN'T KEEP A FAMILY ON THEM SMALL WAGES. THEY'D GET US FELLOWS FOR THIRTY DOLLARS A MONTH AND OUR BOARD AND ROOM. BY,GOD, THAT WAS IT. AND THEY'D GO ON SATURDAY NIGHT, THEY DIDN'T WANT YOU TO GO ON SATURDAY NIGHT, BUT WE'D ALWAYS GO IN ANYWAY. WE'D GO GET SHAVED AND THEN WE'D GO UP TO CRIPPLE CREEK OR SOMEWHERE AND HAVE A HELL OF A GOOD TIME. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-FOUR MR. D: (CONTINUED) LAUGHS ...WELL, I GUESS THAT'S ABOUT ALL THE GALS I KNOW, OLD GALS, I KNEW A LOT OF THEM, ALL RIGHT. THE COUNTRY AND HOMESTEAD. MS. K: WELL, THANK YOU, CHARLIE. MR. D: YOU'RE WELCOME. L6V/J- Mini END OF TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE COME TO � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 1979 interview with Charlie Dell Subject The topic of the resource Women in rural development; Ranching; Families – History Description An account of the resource Interview with Charlie Dell about family, ranch hand life, his experience meeting Rex Bell and Clara Bow, and life in Guffey, Colorado Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kennedy, Lori Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of two audio-cassettes with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of two files. A transcript does accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-04-14 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dell, Charlie Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Dell_C_01a_1979; oh_Dell_C_01b_1979 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Guffey (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 19deaac5-c988-41dc-a156-478da406055d cowboys Guffey https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/c978d30c45bbdf2c7db7c75c544840bd.mp3 86be45265cde94aa27f965ee679ab04d https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/554e92c6d0abd1cdc409233d3f01a576.mp3 02ff2bf290770b94e636f50d416b9e2c https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/d249e5db17d0cff8e42acd6de3f955d7.mp3 98f46c0aa2a545e2d8d7c38331a60fec https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/65e9dc70dd052e4361e19e8926add597.mp3 74729643e6d26f0a139791149d0130ed https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/401d315c5fbc507eaf2c727699c77dcf.pdf d0f9f083fe24c959dd112b7db384897e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 1980 interview with Charlie Dell Subject The topic of the resource Cowboys; Ranching; Families – History Description An account of the resource Interview with Charlie Dell about life in Guffey, migration in and out of the area, family history, Utes and Arapaho, cowboy life Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kennedy, Lori Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of two audio-cassettes with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of four files. A transcript does not accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980-10-12 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dell, Charlie Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp5 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Dell_C_01a_1980; oh_Dell_C_01b_1980; oh_Dell_C_02a_1980; oh_Dell_C_02b_1980 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Guffey (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 11190b10-13b0-495c-85cd-70b136572b2e cowboys Guffey https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/847e7cc53238582b21ef1199b8b5af2f.mp3 00cc05596a6a1897a047bff0de261f3e https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/c9db228a9d1c88e13e5e03d20e02280d.mp3 6515c6e9171c4a7cccc4c5af3994f50d https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1640da1d82bce709170ceebf1090a9cb.pdf cd84c9fc24d3bcd9eb3e8a6ba46ce59b PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY – LODI ESHE Cora Doyle Interview December 17, 2003 CD: Ok, We’re ready to go. It’s been a complicated start, but this is Cara Doyle and I am here with Lodi, and is it Eshe? Is that right? LE: Eshe CD: Eshe LE: Well, that’s what we say. CD: I’ve heard it pronounced several different ways. Some pronounce it Eshe. LE: Yes, they do. Other people have but we’ve al . . . . . the Eshes said Eshe so we said Eshe. CD: Let’s see it is December 17, 2003 and we’re in Lakewood in Lodi's apartment. There is a Christmas tree sitting next to us and I guess I want to start by asking how your family got to Colorado? Where was the first kind of influence of Colorado? You mentioned homesteading, so that seems to go way back. LE: My mother’s father is supposed to have been the first white child born in Colorado. CD: What’s his name? LE: Young, Emory Young. Y-O-U-N-G. And my Uncle was treasurer in Park County many years ago. His name was William. Then my Father’s father came to Park County, well he came to Denver and they only had a quarter between them, he and his brother and they ended up in South Park and homesteaded our ranch and then the other ranch that is up there. CD: And we are looking at a picture on the wall, a beautiful photograph of the ranch. How did they know about ranching? Had they worked? Where did they come from that they knew . . . LE: They had no idea; they came from Ohio, from Cincinnati. But at that time they could come up there and they had to clear the land in some instances. Not necessarily trees but bogs. There were a lot of bogs in that area. And they made the meadow and the ranch land. CD: And this is right near Jefferson. How close are we talking to that highway there? LE: Oh we’re talking four miles from the little town of Jefferson. Between Jefferson and Como. And there is a school up there on the ranch that was called the Freemont School that was built by the ranchers around there for their children to go to school CD: Oh, when would they have homesteaded that? Do you know the year around the time? LE: No, not exactly but it was about 1870 something or early eighties. Maybe even earlier than that but I just don’t have the records. I did a DAR research but not on this grandfather who settled in Jefferson. CD: OK, OK. SO, what happened with that family? Can you tell me about how the ranch went? �LE: Well, my grandfather ranched and my father inherited the ranch. CD: Ok, What was your Dad’s name? LE: Walter Schattinger. CD: And that’s a famous name around there. LE: Yes, it’s been there a long time. And then Dare Schattinger was my brother and then my family, I married into the Esche family and that is where my name comes from, my maiden or my married name. CD: OK, can you tell me about the Schattinger ranch, just that has such a big name around there. LE: Well, I think it started out at 360 acres (Phone rings) CD: OK I started again I think we’re good. We had a phone call so we did great. You were talking about the Schattingers. LE: I told you about Peter Schattinger homesteaded the ranch, that was my grandfather. CD: Now wait, there was the Youngs. LE: Well now, the Youngs are my maternal (grand) parents who had nothing to do with the ranch. The Schattingers are the people who had the ranch. CD: OK and the grandfather was Peter? LE: Peter. CD: And how did he end up? LE: Well he’s buried up in Como. All of my family is buried up there. My grandfather Schattinger and grandmother Schattinger and then my father and mother. CD: And what was your grandmother’s name. LE: Lillian Young. CD: OK, and so they ranched. Can you tell me what their life was like? Did they tell you anything? LE: Oh, well, my grandfather told some stories but he sang to us a lot and he made up stories so I would be inclined to not verify all of the stories he told us CD: Was he a good singer? LE: Oh, they all sang, everybody sang when we went any place in the car we had no radio so we all sang. CD: Can you remember what any of the songs were? LE: Well, not right at this moment but I can surely give you a paper with all of them CD: Oh, that would be fun. I can just think of some of the old ones that my family sang like “Old Suzanna” or, oh, well, you know LE: Oh, we had some of that kind. And we had a Victrola or phonograph and we always had fairly recent records and they kept up with the modern things of that day. CD: OK, so you grandparents were on the ranch. Did you spend a lot of time there? �LE: Well, yes, until time to go to school. Then my folks bought a house in Jefferson so we kids could live in Jefferson to go to school. And then we would go back up to the ranch in the spring when they irrigated and fixed the ranch. If you’ll shut this off I’ll get that drapery closed. CD: OK, we’re back on tape. OK, so when you were little your first years were out at the ranch. LE: Yes CD: What was it like? Tell me as a little girl what was it like? LE: I can’t say anything that wasn’t pleasant because I didn’t know anything but that. And it was, I just loved it. We kids played in the yard and in the barns and drove our kiddy cars up on the roof of the barn for goodness sake. CD: What are kiddy cars? LE: Little wooden kiddy cars, you know, like a tricycle. CD: OK. You drove them off the roof? LE: Yes, into the manure pile. (Laughter) LE: And we could carry those silly tricycles back up on the edge of the logs to get up on the roof and then come on down. So we had kind of a reckless life. CD: Who were you playing with? LE: My brother and , , , CD: Dare? Your brother? LE: Dare and my sister Ruth and then I had, there were some other people who lived on another ranch which we ultimately owned CD: And who was that family? LE: Greenwells CD: OK, I’m not familiar with that name LE: Well there was Ed and Ray Greenwell who homesteaded kind of at the same time my grandfather did but I didn’t know those people CD: They moved away? But they had kids your age who would come play? LE: Some of, no they were older . . . CD: OK LE: But they would come down the way ranchers sort of visit that was the sort of thing. CD: Now were kids expected to do any chores? Did you have to help work at all? LE: Well, when we started cooking for the hay hands I got introduced to washing dishes and peeling potatoes and things like that. But we didn’t have to work. CD: That was more in the fall when you had hay season? LE: That’s when we had the haying. But as growing up, no, I didn’t have anything to do but just play. �CD: Now, what about winter things to do, was there, did they have skiing then that you guys did there? LE: No, we wore overshoes and that type of thing if we went outside to play. But I don’t think we did much playing in the heavy part of the winter. CD: Ice skating or sledding? Somehow I was thinking of kids telling me about a skating pond. LE: Well, we used to have skating parties after we moved into Jefferson. But you asked about the ranch. CD: OK, ‘cause you were kind of isolated there weren’t . . . LE: Yes. And then when we moved into town we did have skating parties every night or two. We would gather tires all summer long so we could burn them on the fire for our skating parties and we all smelled like burned rubber tires. CD: Who were your friends then? Who did you play with in town? Who lived there? LE: Oh, well there was Sanburn kids and the Wright boys and Florence and Jim Head and Jeannie and, CD: That’s Jean Head Howie that we talked about earlier LE: Yes, but there weren’t that many kids in school or in town at that time CD: Huh, what was school like? LE: We just had reading and writing and arithmetic and as I progressed, I was pretty much the oldest at that time, and as I progressed then I could hear the first graders read and the second graders, that type of thing. CD: So you would kind of help them, the older kids would help them? LE:I helped the teachers, uh huh, because they didn’t have that much. They had a lot of kids and a lot of grades but no help. CD: OK, was this a one room school? LE: a one room school in Jefferson which is now our church or community church. Then we built a hall so we could play basketball and we had good girl teams and good boy teams but the girls would have to play boys rules to practice and then the boys would have to play girls rules to practice. There were differences in the rules and the boy’s rules were much more fun. CD: That’s funny because Marie Chisholm was just telling me that. LE: who was?CD: Marie Chisholm was just telling me about the different rules. She didn’t like that so much. LE: it was terrible. You know you had a three court system and the ball had to go from the forward court to the center court to the guard court or wherever the ball was supposed to be, you had to pass it through the center court. I was short, not very tall, and you had to be kind of tall to play basketball and I was the little running center and I tell you, you went from one end to the other. CD: I didn’t ask you, when were you born? LE: 1916. January 8, 1916. CD: OK so you have a birthday coming up LE: um hum �CD: So when you were in the Jefferson school, trying to get the time ‘cause it seems like the sports kind of for girls changed before the war and after the war. I get kind of different stories from people. LE: Well, see I wasn’t there during the war. My husband and I were in Los Angeles and I wasn’t playing basketball so I don’t know just when the rules changed. CD: so this would have been in the twenties and early thirties? LE: No, in the early forties. I was in the first grade in the twenties. CD: at the Jefferson school? OK. LE and then I graduated from high school in 1934. CD: OK. LE: then I went to Barnes Business College and graduated from Barnes in, oh, my goodness, I don’t remember. 1937 I think. CD: Where was Barnes?LE: Barnes was a business school in Denver and I came to Denver and went to Barnes Business School. And they always placed people for employment after they had finished school. So . . . CD: So did you get placed? LE: Oh, I was placed in the first job was in a garage and I didn’t like that at all and so I found my own job after that and then I went back up and was to Jefferson and was the assistant director of welfare and the old age pension and Social Security came out. CD: Oh, tell me about that. That must have been a pretty big deal. LE: Well, it was kind of fun. We had to go down to meet the people, down in Elkhorn and Hartsell and Garo and Duffy. CD: You mean people signing up for the program? LE: where they were signing up for old age pension and Social Security. CD: Oh . . And what were there qualifications they had to have or what did they . . .? LE: Oh, they had to be a certain age and then I think there was a financial background of how much money they had made in previous years. Primarily I think we did what you are doing, researched their history so we could have it on record for the Social Security and old age pension. CD: So, where was your office located. LE: Well, it was in Fairplay. The first one was in what I think is now a bar or a restaurant and then they built the white building, I don’t know whether it is still white. It had an upstairs and that is where our welfare and Social Security offices were and there were some other offices downstairs participating in the county. CD: What street was that on, do you remember? LE: I have no idea, I don’t know if the streets were even named at that time. CD: What year would this have been, do you remember? LE: Oh, 35 and 36; 34 was when they began the Social Security and old age pension. CD: and this was a job that you found . . . LE: Well, they had a real director and then I was assistant director. �CD: Who was the director then? LE: I can’t, Barcelmae? I can’t tell you his first name. CD: What was Fairplay like then? LE: Just about like it is now. CD: Yeah? LE: There hasn’t been a whole lot, well . . . there are some more houses up Beaver Creek and up Sacramento and that area but in town there weren’t that many CD: um, you remember where you got groceries or what, where LE: Ascott was the grocer and Prokoff CD: OK LE: and we did most of our grocery shopping there. It was kind of on a daily basis. It was sort of a meeting place. Can you shut that off. I’ll go get a drink of water. CD: Ok, we’re back, we’re talking about Fairplay. LE: My husband and I lived in what was called Gees’ house, up on the hill going up Beaver Creek I think. It is a white house but it looks like it is in disrepair right now. It was quite a large house and we had kind of a basement apartment. CD: You don’t remember who owned it? LE: Yes, Mr. Gee, I can’t, he was an attorney. I think maybe he was our District Attorney. CD: Do you remember what you paid for rent? LE: Fifteen dollars CD: $15 dollars a month? LE: um hum CD: we’re kind of jumping around because, let’s see, who were you married to? LE: Who was I married to? CD: Who were you married to? Yes, because you just mentioned your husband and we didn’t talk . LE: Richard Eshe CD: OK, tell me about Richard, how did you meet him. LE: I guess I just knew him from ever, from school you know. And then his father worked for my grandfather. You know I told you about the Eshes getting into Park County and Frank had worked for my grandfather and he was married to Swanee Hymer whose parents lived up there, no they lived more in Tiny Town, but when she and Frank were married they lived in Como, at the Eight Mile Ranch if you know where that is. CD: The Eight Mile Ranch, that was there was the Eshes lived? LE: That was their ranch. CD: So when you say you went to school with him was that at the Jefferson school? LE: No, Como had their own school and Jefferson had their school and we just met for basketball games and school parties and that sort of thing. �CD: So he was in Como at the school. OK and were you about the same age. LE: He was three years older than I. CD: and so, when did you first go out? LE: well on my 16th birthday my parents finally decided I was old enough to go out and I went out with Richard. CD: And, had he asked you for your birthday? LE: Oh, no. No, we were kids growing up, you know. We were good dancers and we danced together a lot so that had something to do with it. CD: So what did you do for your sixteenth birthday? LE: They had a birthday party. Cake and ice cream and blindfolded games, you know. That type of thing. CD: at your house was this at the ranch? LE: No, at mother and daddy’s house in Jefferson. CD: In Jefferson. OK, where was the house? LE: It’s still there, it is about a block from the school, the school house. And two houses back of the grocery store. So that will tell you how small it was. CD: Tell me what the house was like. LE: It was two bedrooms and a living room and dining room like this and it was, I mean, in size it was about this size, the living room and dining room, we used to feed the hay hands there after we left the ranch so it was a pretty good size. CD: Two bedrooms but you say there were three kids, there were three of you? LE: Right, two girls and a boy. CD: So how did the rooms work. Did you and your sister share a room, I’m guessing? And then where did your brother stay? LE: He stayed with neighbors next door who had a spare bedroom and he could just go into the bedroom from the outside. CD: OK, who was the oldest? LE: I’m the oldest CD: You’re the oldest. LE: Dare was born in, I was born in 1916 and he was born in February of 1917 and my sister was born in July of 1918. CD: OK, all right in a row, all in a row you guys were. LE: um hum CD: And what did your folks do when you were little, what were your parents doing? LE: I don’t know. My Dad lived on the ranch and my Mother’s parents lived in Pueblo and Wyoming and she went to school in Wyoming for two or three years and came back and went to school in Pueblo. She was a telephone operator when she was very young. Oh, I think they probably started about 15 or 16 years old. CD: Working? And that would have been in Pueblo? �LE: um hum CD: OK and that family name again was, she was the LE: Young\ CD: The Young family. And then your Dad was raised on the ranch, Schattinger ranch. And when you were growing up he was still helping the folks, that was the family business/ LE: Well, he was buying the ranch from grandfather and then grandfather bought another ranch kind of over at the foot of Kenosha and we called that the Baker place, I think they must have purchased it from Baker’s but I don’t know for sure. CD: Can you tell me what they had on the ranch? I’m guessing that they raised cattle? LE: Oh, some cattle and horses and hay. Just a typical South Park ranch, no sheep, we didn’t have any sheep. CD: I guess I’m asking about that just because you know how much it has changed and so for like your kids understand a normal ranch I’m not sure they will know what a normal ranch is like in the South Park. What was that? LE: Almost what it is now. It hasn’t changed that much. CD: OK. You were raising hay. Where was it sold to? Do you know where they sold the hay? W LE: Well, we sold ours to the stock yards. CD: In Denver? LE: In Denver. And it went down on the train for a long time and then Daddy bought trucks and he hauled the hay and sold it and added the freight to it. That was additional income. CD: OK. And is that how the big family trucking business got started. I’m told there is a whole family trucking business. LE: Well, that’s what the Schattinger part was. Then Richard and I were married and went to Los Angeles during the war. CD: When were you married? How old were you? LE: I was twenty one or two, I was married in 1937, August 19, 1937. CD: Where did you get married? LE: In Mother’s and Dad’s house in Jefferson. CD: Who was there, who did you invite? LE: Oh, the whole town. You don’t . . . CD: You have to, that’s what you’re saying? LE: You have to have everybody. And so, I don’t know, there were probably fifty people and we had a reception, they didn’t have weddings at that time. Kids ran away and got married. CD: I’ve had a lot of people who told me they got married in (New) Mexico and I wondered why. LE: Went to Mexico? �CD: Went to New Mexico to get married . . . LE: I think maybe that was true. CD: But you got married right there? Who married you? LE: What? CD: Who married you? LE: No, but he was late getting to the wedding and I thought somebody paid him off you know. (Laughter) LE: No, I can’t tell you what his name . CD: Would it be someone from the church or would it be more like a Justice of the Peace? LE: No, he was from the church. What was the church at Jefferson at that time. CD: OK LE: But he got there, finally got there. And then they had the reception in that little hall, where the town hall is now but it was a different building then. And then we went on a honeymoon down to Gunnison and Durango. CD: Did you go camping or did you stay at hotels? LE: No, we stayed in hotels. My goodness, that was the first wedding that had been in Jefferson in years so it was kind of different. CD: uh huh. It sounds nice. And then, what did you do? What kind of work were you doing? LE: My husband was working at the South London mine and then . . . CD: What did he do there? LE: He worked on the sorting belt. He sorted the good ore from the bad ore but I don’t know much more about it than that. CD: Did he tell you much about the South London, what it was like or? LE: I’ve been in the South London. CD: Tell me about it. LE: God’s sakes, it’s a hole in the ground with shafts. CD: It doesn’t sound very romantic. (Laughter) LE: Goodness no! There’s nothing to tell you the South London mine. CD: NO? LE: Nothing historical. CD: Did he like the work? LE: Well, you worked where you could get a job and get paid so you didn’t necessarily like it and he was working for the C&S Railroad in Denver and then while he was doing that he was hired in Los Angeles and then he moved from Denver to Jefferson to Los Angeles. CD: that must have been a huge change? LE: It was a change. �CD: Did you like it? LE: Not really. But you know, you live in a small community like Jefferson and then go to Los Angeles it seemed a forever thing. CD: Kind of scary and exciting. It would be. LE: What? CD: Kind of scary and exciting, both. LE: Well, we didn’t get our car out there for, oh, six or eight weeks. And after I got my car I did a lot of things. I would go to the ocean and the beach and take Janice and that type of things. CD: Janice, was that you first . . . LE: That’s my daughter. CD: OK, how old was she then? When did you have Janice? LE: Oh, she was about three, two and a half, about three. CD: Did you have her in Jefferson or when you got to Los Angeles? LE: Well, she was born in CD: More company CD: (After break) OK Lody’s got a busy life here. We’re stopping the tapes. We were talking I think when Janice was born you were out in Los Angeles and I was trying to clarify LE: No, Janice was born in Greeley CD: Oh, in Greeley LE: In Greeley. And then we went to Los Angeles when she was about two years old. CD: I missed when you were living in Greeley. LE: We didn’t live there. My uncle was my doctor and he was in Greeley so I went up there to have my baby. CD: What was your uncle’s name? LE: Haskill, Earl Haskill CD: And was he close to the family?LE: No, not really CD: But he was a doctor LE: When he found out I was pregnant he came up to the ranch and erase that CD: You want me to erase this part? LE: Yeah CD: So Janice was born in Greeley? But you were living still in Jefferson at that time? LE: um hum CD: And then you headed out to Los Angeles? LE: And then we went to Los Angeles CD: What was life like there? �LE: Awful. Richard worked long hours on the railroad and we settled in a Jewish community and I didn’t, wasn’t familiar with Jewish people and I wasn’t familiar with their accent so I really had kind of a hard time getting acquainted, but they were very good to me and we were just across the street from Seventh Day Adventist hospital and I used to go over there and roll bandages and things for the war effort. CD: OK. How did the war change things. You were volunteering. Did it change other things was it hard to get supplies for you? Did you, was it? LE: If you had the food stamps you were fine. And we had to have unlimited gasoline because gasoline was rationed and we had unlimited gasoline because Richard was on the railroad and had to get that. So I could take people anywhere I could go. And I was not about to stay there and not learn what it was all about or not drive in the Los Angeles traffic or anything. I just went. CD: So you went exploring? And besides the beach where else did you go? You went to the beach, where else did you go? LE: Oh, we went to Santa Monica and Richard worked in San Diego and San Bernardino. We Stayed in San Bernardino for about six weeks when we first got, no, not San Bernardino, well that will do for a bit of work but that is not where it was, we were down on the ocean. Oceanside is where we were. And I like that, so that was better. CD: Sounds like quite an adventure. So what happened from there, where did you go after Los Angeles. Did you stay there a long time? LE: No, well we stayed there for eight or, oh in that area, for eight or ten years and then came back to Colorado and bought South Park Motor Lines. CD: What brought you back?LE: Well, my husband was color blind. During the war it didn’t make any difference but after the war was over they sort of changed some rules and regulations. New presidents. New departments of transportation that sort of thing. CD: So he had to look for some different work. LE: Yes, so we came out and bought the truck line. CD: Why the truck line? LE: Well, because we knew transportation. CD: OK LE: and it was available CD: So where did you settle then? LE: In Denver. CD: What kind of neighborhood, tell me where you settled in Denver? LE: Eastern part of Denver. And then we moved to (?) community out, oh, I can’t think of it CD: That’s OK, it will come back. I’m asking you so many different things. Now we talked about Janice. Were there other kids coming along at that time? LE: I only had two CD: Two kids, OK LE: Had Janice and Rick CD: When was Rick born? �LE: He was born in 1942, 43. CD: So you were probably still out in Colorado at that time? LE: No, we were here. CD: You were back here already. LE: Well no, CD: Thinking from when the war ended LE: That was in the forties and fifties. Rick was born in 1952. CD: OK, ‘52, so you would have been back. What was Denver like then? LE: Just like it is now or very similar. CD: hum? LE: There hasn’t been any big change. I’m 88, but in so far as there being any big change in your standard of living or the way you lived, or the things you did there it has not been that different. CD: Hum, that surprises me. LE: Why? CD: That you’d say that. Oh, because most people seem to think that the growth is kind of overwhelming here and this doesn’t seem to faze you one little bit. LE: Not one bit. Well, if you live in Los Angeles and Alhambra, and South Pasadena for ten years the change in Jefferson is miniscule. CD: That’s probably true. (Laughter)> Let’s see, do you have grandkids, you must ‘cause I’m seeing pictures all over of little ones. LE: I have, there’s a picture of my husband there’s Dick and John and Dick and John and their mother and this is Suzanne. CD: OK. Now Dick and John were? LE: My daughter’s sons. CD: OK. And then does your son have kids also? LE: He has Suzanne CD: Suzanne? OK. Just checking. CD: Tell me what your husband was like. I didn’t get to meet him. Tell me about him. LE: Well, CD: He sounds like a hard worker. LE: Yes, and he looked like, my son looks like him. And he died when we had the truck line and I just went on with the truck line and bought other trucks lines. CD: And how on earth did you know what to do with the truck line? Was this a business you did together? LE: No, if I needed to learn something I learned it. I got a degree in transportation in Opportunity School and I went there at night. CD: When was this? �LE: Here in Denver. CD: What kind of year, do you remember when this was? LE: You’re making me go back, way CD: You don’t have to remember. Now, was your husband, already passed away when you did this or was this when he was alive? LE: Well he was still living and then CD: What was Opportunity School? LE: What? CD: Is that just the name of the school or is that a type of school? LE Opportunity School was a school organized by a single lady who found the lack of education in young people and so she organized a school and got kids going. CD: How neat. Is that kind of like a technical school? LE: Well, I took the business end of it. I took the accounting and the billing and the typing and the shorthand and all that sort of thing. CD: OK. And you learned about transportation. LE: Well, I was in transportation when I did that. CD: OK LE: And I attended everything they had with it. And you learned quickly when you were under the supervision of the public utilities and the interstate commerce commission. You had reams of things that you had to learn. CD: So did you and your husband run the business together? LE: um hum. And then I also worked for other companies and managed their companies and did yours at night. It was, a learning experience that’s for sure. CD: This is while the kids were growing up. You folks were running the trucking company. OK CD: What kind of personality did your husband have? Was he quiet or outgoing or what was he like, what kind of guy? LE: No, he was, well, he was outgoing with the customers up in the Fairplay area, but he wouldn’t do much with working with people in Denver or driving tractors and trailers or anything. He wouldn’t have a thing to do with that. He would drive the bobtails or the small trucks and he would deliver the freight but he didn’t like all the other things. CD: OK. And who were the customers up in Jefferson area, when you talk about the customers up there, who would they be? LE: Like, who the people are now? That’s the same people? CD: Grocery store or ranches or? LE: What’s in Jefferson? There’s not a darn thing but the grocery store and the filling station. So that’s who we delivered to in Jefferson. We did the same thing in Como. We did the same thing in Fairplay. The whole county, Park County, has not developed the way people say it has developed not the way I know development and having worked with it. CD: You mean in terms of like business opportunities. �LE: Yes, and, well, you could. Well, I just can’t explain it to you. It has not grown, there is not much to elaborate. CD: You mean kind of like economic development are you referring to mostly? LE: That’s what you’re referring to. Uh, . . . well it was ranches, just as it is now. And of course there has been some housing development up on Michigan hill and some of those things but there has been no gross development. CD: Why do you think? LE: Well would you want to live in South Park. You may want to erase some of this because it is getting pretty damn . . . CD: Well I think it’s honest. I’ve heard that from other folks particularly around Jefferson for some reason more so than I’ve heard in other towns up there. LE: What do you hear around Garo and Hartsel, and Elkhorn? CD: See I haven’t talked to folks around there LE Tarryall ‘ LE: It isn’t there CD: So you think it is more like lifestyle. Not, it’s not politics it isn’t LE: No it is none of those things. People go up there and live in the summertime but they drive back and forth to Denver or wherever they are working CD: It is a lot tougher I think a life than people realize. LE: Oh, heavens yes. You know. CD: What would you like your grandkids to know about life when you were growing up there? LE: Well, they know how we went to school, they know how we lived at the ranch. They go up there and do the same things we’re doing right now. There has not been that kind of change. CD: Did you ride horses up there? LE: I think I said we had horses and we had burros and we had buggies and we did those kind of things in the summer time. We roller skated, ice skated in the winter time. And then we just grew up. CD: Did you travel much? Did you come to the city very often or did you pretty much just stay? LE: Oh no, we came to town frequently and I was going to school down here and I would, Daddy would come with a load of hay and I would come home for the weekend. And Richard was working at the mine and he would bring me back down to Denver, so it was. I keep telling you it was not an exciting period. I don’t know what more I can say. CD: That’s fine. Was money ever an issue or was your family OK? I mean you had enough food and you could get clothing and medical care. LE: We had no problems, we had the same problems everybody had. There was a depression and we bought groceries in Denver and we cooked for hay hands as I have explained. CD: Where did the hay hands come from?LE: All over, Denver, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas. �CD: So did they travel in groups to get this work? LE: You may have picked ‘em up, I can’t even tell you. Most of ‘em were people, neighbors who had worked for us in years before, that sort of thing. CD: Holidays, what did you do for the holidays? LE: Just what we’re doing now. We celebrated. We had Christmas trees. We went out and cut our own Christmas trees and that to me was a greater part of Christmas and we opened our Christmas gifts just like we do now, I’m telling you there is no change. CD: (Laughter) I’m just trying to get what your family traditions were. LE: Well we did just what I’m telling you. CD: Did you take the buggy out to go get the Christmas tree? Or did you take horses or did you hike somewhere on the ranch?LE: No, we had trucks. We went in trucks up to the ranch. This tree came from the ranch. CD: OK, it’s beautiful. And then did other relatives come to visit you at the ranch or was it more of a small family gathering. LE: It was a community gathering. CD: OK Lody, thank you so much for taking this time with me today. I really appreciate it and I enjoyed learning a little more about your family and thank you so much ## � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lodi Eshe on December 17, 2003 Subject The topic of the resource Homesteading; Families – History; Ranching Description An account of the resource Interview with Lodi Eshe discussing the Schattinger family, growing up in Jefferson, Colorado, working in Fairplay, Colorado, getting married and her husband's time working in the South London mine Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doyle, Cara Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of one audio-cassette with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of two files. A transcript does accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-12-17 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Eshe, Lodi Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp5 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Eshe_L_01a; oh_Eshe_L_01b Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Jefferson (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID d380882c-a36d-429a-9d15-68d62e35a450 Homesteading Jefferson https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/6c31dc73b10a0e6df744266368e7aa00.mp3 588f8d23ae28348e100988450d5d10c8 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/29925306dc6e85427930db0ebb26e6b2.mp3 fc7ff5c0c4cc942e6b52ffa19f31e271 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/0098b1e0a33499876ee6a73ac034f9f2.pdf dbc5e2b9de31b3f03a95d6f91f501180 PDF Text Text EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 1 INTERVIEW BY ROBERT HULT DATED 7/24/02 RH – Robert Hult AE – Alan Eos BE – Ben Eos Okay, today is July 24th, 2002, and this is Bob Hult and I’m with Benny and Alan Eos and we’re at the Eos Mill, about 10 miles or so south of Bailey, Colorado. And were’ going to be talking about their experiences here at the Mill over their lifetime. So Alan, can you start off by just telling me what is your birth date and where were you born? Alan I was born in Denver and July 17, 1933 and growed up here at the saw mill and went to school here seven years and then when 7th grade, went to school in Buffalo and drove there in a ’29 Model A every day. Your parents drove you? Alan No, we drove. Oh, you drove! Now this isn’t elementary school… Alan No, it was the… Ben 7th grade. So you were driving when you were in 7th grade. Okay. Alan Eleven miles every day to school and then we went to high school in Arvada. All the way to Arvada? Alan Yeah, we build a cabin down there and mom stayed down there with us during the week when we went to school and then we were back up weekends. There was no high school here up in Park County? Alan There was in Park County but this is in Jefferson County and you had to pay tuition to get to Park County. Oh, okay! Alan See, it works now… Yeah, there’s reciprocal agreements now. Alan Yeah. Interesting. So you went all the way into Arvada for high school. Alan So, Mom and Dad wanted us to have a college education, but we never did make it to college (laughter). Alan We’ve been saw-milling ever since. So you’ve been here pretty much your whole life working at the mill. Alan Whole life. Well, we worked here - - well, when I graduated from high school in 1952, then I was running the saw mill every day and then in 1954, we moved and the saw mill just dissolved. Part to above Cheesman Dam on Molly Gulch and we sawed a million and a half, two million over there and hauled most of the lumber to the Blue River Tunnel at Grant. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 2 Okay. Ben For cribbing. Alan For cribbing. Right. Alan And the new moved the mill to Kenosha Pass and we cut a million and a half, two million off of Twin Cones… Oh gosh. Alan From 1958 to 1965. Then we moved the saw mill to above Jefferson on Michigan Creek and we cut a ten million foot sale on Michigan Creek and then we cut another ten million feet between Como, Fairplay and 39 Mountain on down by Guffy… and then we moved the mill back home in 1975. My gosh. So you moved that mill quite a few times. Alan But the planer was always here, but our dad run the planer. Now what was your father’s name? Alan Eric. Eric. Okay, and he started the mill? Alan He started the mill and in probably in… oh, I don’t know, probably in the really early part of the ‘30s because he built the log house that we moved into in 1935. Okay. Alan But then he was - -he sawed and made lettuce crates as one of the big things that he was into making and hauled them to get Denver and he cut ties for the narrow gauge railroad that went through Bailey. Okay, so before the railroad got going through. Alan Yeah, while it was still going through because it went out in ’37. Right. So those were replacement ties then? Alan Replacement ties, yeah, so… Interesting. Alan But then they used to raise - - when they first moved up here, they raised lettuce and potatoes and sold - - and see, lettuce and potatoes don’t hardly grow up here anymore. I was going to say, lettuce – here! That’s very surprising. Alan Yeah, that’s where he got into making lettuce crates. Right. Before we get too far - - Benny, Benny you are Alan’s younger brother. Ben Right. Okay. Let me get your birth date also. Ben I was born March 6, 1966. Sixty-six? (laughter). Ben Yeah, 1936. It’s just years. Ben Just get my dates right! So you grew up here on the farm - - on the mill yourself also. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben Bailey, Colorado 3 Yeah, it was also a farm as well as a saw mill. It was. Ben Yeah. Now did your father buy this in the early 30’s? Ben He bought it in the early ‘20s, wasn’t it? Alan About 1924, or somewhere along in there. Okay, was he from Colorado? Alan No, he was from southern Sweden. Really! Alan 1897. He came here in - - he came to Philadelphia from Sweden in about 1910. He was born in Okay. Alan And then he worked at a Ford factory in Moline and a couples company, a rubber - - they made rubber products and then he got - -well, he was - - mom was born in Illinois but moved to northern Minnesota when they were really little but then moved back to Illinois and that’s where Daddy met Mom was in Moline, Illinois. They were married in 1920. Okay, and they - - what made them come out here? Alan Here for his health. Ah, okay and what year was that, you think that was in the early 20’s? Alan That’d be in the early 20’s because I had a brother that was born in 1923… Ben Yeah. Alan But never lived, only a day or two and… And that was back in Illinois, or here? Alan No, that was in Denver. So he was born in Denver. So they moved to Denver. Alan So they were in Denver in 1923 and then worked on Lookout Mountain for a number of years… Ben He helped build the Lariat Trail going up. Alan Widen it out for a car from a horse drawn road, you know and… Lariat Trail. Where is that today? Alan That’s from … Ben Lookout Mountain. Oh, okay. Oh really. That’s what that is. Alan You know, from Golden to Lookout Mountain. Right. Alan Yeah, he worked on it. They lived in Arvada, bought a house - were buying a house in Arvada and he was working for Denver Gardener and he broke his back, something fell on him, and he broke his back and then they lost their place in Arvada and moved to Lookout Mountain and then moved - - then bought this place somewhere in there, I don’t know what … Ben They lived in a tent for two or three years. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Alan 4 Two or three years. Ben Bailey, Colorado That’s all they had. So this would have been the late - - middle to the late 20’s then? Alan So, must have been something like that. I don’t know exactly some dates in there. Never did find out. Right. Alan But then they knew the Soderstrom’s and they knew the Holbergs, and see, the Holbergs and Soderstroms, they’re… Ben Related. Alan Related. Okay, because of their Scandinavian background? Ben Very well could be. Alan Yeah, I suppose, but then Daddy and Carl Holberg done a bunch of work inventing stuff back in the 20’s. Ben Yeah. Alan But some of that family was in Moline too and see, they come out here. Ben Yeah. Alan So I don’t know exactly how all this … Mom and Dad never told too much about the olden days, you know. Yeah, interesting. I know I have the same concerns about my grand-parents and the things that they did .Interesting. Now they were living in the Golden area, or Lookout Mountain. Alan Lookout Mountain then and then they moved up to here. Now did they buy this outright or how… Alan Yeah, they bought this place then in the middle 20’s Okay. Alan And they paid $10 an acre and there’s 80 acres here! Wow, that’s amazing. Now what was his intent, was it to open up a farm here? Ben Oh, I’d - - just get out of the city. Well I can appreciate that! (laughter) Now if he had no background in farming and you said he’d never lived in a rural area – like this must have been really rural back in that period – Ben Yeah, it was. I wonder what the intent was. Was it to farm or you’d mentioned, he raised lettuce and potatoes at one point? Alan Well, that was just enough to make enough money to get going, but I don’t really know what he … Ben They never did say why they come up here. That’s quite a challenge. It strikes me as having done a lot of these. The people just made decisions and just did it. They didn’t’ plan a lot. They just made decisions and made it work. They just made it work. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben Bailey, Colorado 5 Yeah, yeah. Whatever it took. You know, this sounds like it could be that could be kind of similar. So they bought this place in the late 20’s probably and came up here. Did they build a house or was there a house… Alan Yeah, they build a house. No, there wasn’t - - there was an old barn is all there was and then they - - well, they built the bunkhouse first, I suppose. Ben Yeah. Alan And the fruit cellar. That’s the building you pass as you come up the road where it’s on the right-hand side? Ben Yeah, off the rock. Yeah, where the rough rock foundations. Alan Foundation was and then they built - - then the next cabin there , the one next to it there, and that was built for a chicken house but then that’s where they lived, in it, until the log was built and then we built - - we moved into there in 1935. Now do you remember that? Alan Yeah, I remember moving in there. So you actually remember that, that’s the year… Ben I wasn’t born until ’36. That’s right. So you probably wouldn’t remember that! (laughter) But you remember back that far. Alan ‘Cause Mom - -I remember Mom’s dad was here helping build the house and well… Ben Ron, her brother, come helped, too. Uncle Fred. Alan Yeah, Fred, Uncle Fred, came and helped and so… but I don’t know long it took them to build the house but anyway,… It’s interesting again you know, with no particular background in that, they just went and built a house! Alan Yeah, right, you know, but he must have had something in mind ‘cause he was doing this inventing stuff and then course evidently, the lettuce crates and the garden they growed. See, they growed enough garden that the only thing you went to Denver to buy groceries was for sugar and flour and you know, Ben That’s about it. Maybe some lard, or … did they raise up there? Alan We raised cows and we butchered… Ben Pigs. Alan We butchered three pigs. They’d go buy the spring, early spring, they’d buy three little weanlings and then they’d butchered one at Thanksgiving and the other two around the first of the year. And then we had butchered a calf or you know, or a steer or something for meat and then of course, the garden, that was all the vegetables and the cellar, that took care of all. Then all the - - everything had to be canned that would spoil. Sure. Alan Meat was … Ben Canned. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Alan Bailey, Colorado 6 Canned and the pork was Morton sugar-cure hams and stuff like that put in crocks. So it was your mother, the two of you and that’s it. You had just two… Alan And a sister between us. Ben A sister. Oh, you had a sister. Okay. And she was in between you two of your ages? Alan Yeah, uh-huh. So you born all three pretty close together. Ben Yeah. Okay. Alan She lives in Arvada. Oh, okay. Alan Or was married and lived in Arvada and then … course this place is proper - - the house and the property is hers. Oh really? Alan Mom left that to her, so… Okay. Now are you - - you actually have your own places. You’re in Shawnee (speaking to Alan Eos). Alan Yeah. And you’re at Friendship Ranch (speaking to Ben Eos). Ben Right. Is there water - -is there running water on the property or do you have a well? Alan Yeah, there’s running water and then the spring - - the water for the house comes about a thousand feet from the house. Really! Ben It’s right back up (gesturing). Okay. So it’s a spring? Alan Spring. Ben Spring. It’s always been good? Be Oh yeah. Alan Always been good. That’s nice. Alan Yeah, it runs - - it don’t have too much pressure in the house, but you always got water. Yeah, well that’s really important. Alan So, you don’t need no electricity. Interesting! Now in winter, what happens? Do you have to - - is the spring always flowing in winter, too? Ben Oh yeah. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 7 So it - - so you just go out and get the water. Ben It’s piped. Oh, you pipe it into the house, okay. Alan Yeah, they… Ben The first pipeline they dug in by hand, a thousand feet, seven foot deep. It was rocky stuff. Seven foot deep? Well, yeah you want to stay below the frost, so, yeah. Alan Well, they dug - - no, the first they put it in and it was only around four feet … Ben The first, yeah. Alan And then they had to re - - it froze and then they had to re-dig it and go down deeper. That must have been much colder winters in that period. Ben Oh, yeah. Alan zero. January’s and February’s there’s a lot a days at 25 below zero. A lot of nights 25 below I wonder why it’s changed so much the past few years it seems. Alan It barely gets to zero anymore. Yeah, absolutely. I think the coldest we got last year is like about ten, maybe twelve below and that was for one or two days. Ben Yeah. And very little snow. Alan Right. Did you get snowed in here? Alan Oh yeah, you know. Ben Yeah, there’d be… Alan There’d be a month at a time you don’t - - you didn’t go to - - if you went to Bailey, you went on horseback. Now what was in Bailey this period of time, in the say, mid to late 30’s? Was there much up Bailey at that point? Alan Well, there was … Not that there’s a lot there today, but… Alan There was two hotels. Ben Course the train stopped there. Right. Alan The train stopped there. Ben There was a store that’s there now. Where was the train station located? Alan Oh, I don’t remember. Since the highway come in. Ben Well, it was the hotel, the store and the hotel and then the train station. Alan Yeah. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 8 The store was the grocery store that’s there now? Ben Yeah. Alan It’s there now. It’s the only thing that’s really… Ben That’s the only thing that’s … Alan That’s still there, ain’t it? Ben Yeah. Alan There was a big hotel behind the store and then there was a big hotel … Ben Right in front of the store. Alan Right in front of the store, between the Knotty Pine, where the Chinese restaurant is. Ben Right, somewhere in there. Yeah, there was a big hotel there. Alan But it burned down. They both burned down but I don’t remember what year; in the 40’s I guess. I was told there was a hotel up on the hill where that log company is, that builds log cabins? Ben Right. Big one. Big one. In fact, I’ve seen a picture of it. It had a big white veranda, it was a beautiful hotel. That burned. Alan But then there was a hotel right there on the - - in the - - right down in the main street of Bailey. Ben Yeah, right where the restaurant is there. Where Crow’s Foot is now? Ben No, the Chinese restaurant. Chinese restaurant, okay. So that building – what’s there now is completely different from what was there then. Ben Right, right. Alan And the bulk station, that had to be there - - was that there when the railroad was there? Ben Yeah. ‘cause when I worked down there, we took out the - - one of the original tanks, that horizontal tank and it was mainly for kerosene I guess, ‘cause everybody up here, you had had kerosene lanterns. Right. Ben And the railroad went right by it. It’s on the route that 285 is on now? Be Yeah. Just about - - because the road went right in front of the store. Oh, so there was a road and then there was the railroad. Ben Yeah. So they were two - - they weren’t sitting on top of each other. Ben Right. Okay. So the main road went right in front of the grocery store. Ben Yeah, and then the depot was - - I’ve seen a picture of this. I don’t remember it. But I’ve seen a picture somewhere and the depot was about where the fire house that burned down here. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Alan 9 By the river. Ben Bailey, Colorado By the river. Between the tracks and the river. Okay. Be There was a long building there. I don’t know…if it was in that movie that McGraw made of the railroad; I think that’s where I’m remembering it. Okay, that was what, ’37 that the railroad went out? Ben Yeah. Okay, I guess that goes back, probably just before the turn of the century, or when it was installed; when the railroad came through? ‘Cause it went to Como if I remember correctly. Alan Yeah, it went to Como in 1860 something. Oh, it’s that far back. Ben Yeah. Wow, that had been there a long time then. Alan Yeah, I think that’s what I read on the sign up there on Boreas Pass or something or up at Como. 18… Did you ever go shopping in Bailey or did you always go to Denver to get what you needed? Alan Well, you’d get groceries at the store, some groceries in Bailey, but then you’d - - when you go to Denver, you buy flour in one hundred pound sacks, and Ben Well, and then the barrel - - but I can remember Daddy rolling a barrel of flour out of the store there in Bailey on that old truck. What, a hundred pound barrel? The old wooden barrel? Alan Wooden barrels. Really! Alan Well, like a fifty-gallon barrel. Ben I can remember him rolling that out. I wasn’t very big. Yeah, but you know, being here where you’re located… Ben I don’t know if it was into a wagon or into the old truck. Hmm. So you’d buy flour in barrels. Be Barrels, yeah. In fact, I think there one of them barrels in the attic up there. So, what did you do for fun? I mean, again, now lets say, in starting in the 40’s or something. Now you’re at that point in time, you’re about what? Anywhere from ten to fifteen years old, somewhere around in there. Ben Like for entertainment? Yeah. What did you do for fun? Ben We worked! I see! (laughter). Well, there’s an awful lot to be done up here. Alan Skidded logs. Ben Skidded logs with the horse. So you started working right away with your father as soon as you could? Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben 10 Oh yeah. Alan Bailey, Colorado Oh yeah. Ben I don’t know, I can remember helping him turn logs when can hook candle was taller that I was. Okay! Alan Moving, stacking lumber and … Ben Stacking lumber, we used to stack lumber and we done all the plowing and the planting…oats for hay and… Alan We used to raise enough hay here to feed three milk cows and a couple of extra cows and a team of horse and a riding horse. Okay. So you had quite a bit then. And you also had a vegetable garden then for yourselves? Ben You bet. Alan Yeah, vegetable garden, yeah, we raised it. It was probably about like, an acre. Yeah, okay. And you had enough moisture to do that! Ben Yeah. Now could you take spring water and use it for that purpose? Ben Well, there was a creek running down there. Alan We irrigated. Ben Made ditches and irrigated and we spent a lot of time in the summer weeding the garden on your hands and knees. It would be the two of you and your sister? Ben Right. My wife does that. My wife comes from a truck farm family and she - - that’s what she did all summer, is basically weed. That’s what you ended up doing. Alan And then in the winter, you cut firewood. When did you get electricity up here? Ben About ‘50. Alan Sometime in the early ‘50s, ’52 or … I don’t know. We had a … Ben We had a light (inaudible) for a … Alan 32-volt generator. 32-volt. Alan You had sixteen two-volt batteries. Ben With batteries. Okay, so you were charging the batteries primarily? Alan Yeah, you could run the generator one day a week or so many hours a week. Right, okay, and then the rest of the time you were basically running off the batteries. Alan Batteries, yeah. So it was all DC. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Alan Bailey, Colorado 11 Yeah. Interesting. Ben You did your homework by the fireplace. Yeah! And the kerosene lantern! Ben Yeah. Now did your equipment run off of a like a diesel or something? Alan Diesel, yeah. Ben Diesel. He didn’t’ get the first diesel though until most of it was run with gas engines … Alan Up until the middle 40’s. I’m told that gas was very difficult to get during the war. Alan Oh yeah but you - - but if you had a business, you could get all the fuel you needed. Now you were very young during the Depression, from ‘29 to probably the beginning of World War II. Do you remember much of that period and did it affect your father’s farm here? Alan Well, I don’t know, they… Ben They just made do! (laughter). You’re pretty isolated out here; you’re largely self-sufficient, so it was nothing like living in the city. Ben Yeah, and … Alan … The only time you went to Denver with the family was Christmas and Thanksgiving and Ben That’s about it. SE About it, really. Now did you have family in Denver? Alan Yeah, there’s relations in Denver. So you did. So there’s a family get-together kind of thing. Ben Yeah. That would be a pretty good trip from here down into Denver. Alan Back in the ‘30’s it was and into the 40’s, yeah, it was an all-day’s drive. Yeah, I’m sure. Alan And then during World War II, then they - - Daddy and Mom run the mill and sawed all day and then they’d deliver these Government orders at night you know. First, then he had three or four heart attacks in the 40’s and they found him twice along the road passed out beside of Morrison one time and up on them short corners and they took him – somebody took him to the hospital and then some other place he had another heart attack. But he kept on going. I guess! And he lived to 96? I mean 1996? Ben No, he was 96. He was 96 years old! That’s right, it was 1993 is when he passed away. Alan Passed away. Ben Mom and Dad was married 73 years. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 12 That’s amazing. Now he started the mill in the early ‘30’s. Do you have any idea what got him going; what made him decide to start a mill here? Alan To build a house. That’s a good reason. Alan He had lumber. That’s the amazing thing about people. They just: “Okay, I build a house. Now what do I need? I need lumber. So I go start a mill. Okay.” Ben He built the first mill in a machine shop and brought pieces up. He built the first mill himself. So he just created it. You mentioned he did a lot of inventing; was this part of the kind of things he was doing? Alan Yeah, but he was a machinist when he worked in the Ford factory, he was a machinist and tool maker. Tool and die maker. Oh okay, right. Alan I got a couple of things he give me… some special stuff to put on the cap of a connecting rod on a Model T to make it oil better ‘cause the rods were dip system in the Model T’s. It didn’t’ have an oil pump and then there was something else he give me for a Model T that made them run better and then they invented some - - him and Carl Holberg invented an oil clutch back in the 20’s that he had wore out three cars with this one clutch. Take the clutch out of the car and put it in another one? Alan Another one, yeah. It probably worked really well. Alan Well, let’s see. The first saw mill he pulled with a 1926 Chrysler car engine. So it was portable. Alan Well, just the engine. Okay, I see, okay. Alan Yeah, you took - - cut the frame off behind the transmission and… and of course, his first truck was another old Chrysler … Ben Touring car. Alan Touring car and they put a fifth wheel in the back and made a semi-trailer out of it (laughter). So the mill was built or initiated, you mentioned, he basically created himself. Alan Yes. RH He invented the equipment and had it machined in Denver because of his machinist background and he brought it up here and made the lumber for the house and then he started selling it? Starting to mill as a commercial operation? Alan Yeah, selling it and then of course then he was - - he made the lettuce crates because he was raising lettuce and then the neighbors would want some lumber and started cutting there and cut a few railroad ties and let’s see…during World War II then he had government orders that he had to do. For… what were they… Alan Crating material to ship tanks and whatever overseas to the wars and then he … well, he was building - - pre-built cabins back in them days, too. He built the walls and the roof in sections Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 13 and then he would deliver them to the people’s property and they would already have their foundation and the sub-floor down and then a small house they could put the walls and the roof on in one day or maybe two days at the most and then the people that were buying the house could then could finish them themselves. So this was like pre-fabricated housing. Alan Yeah. And he built it right here! Alan He built it right here at the mill and they started that in … well, he to start that in the late 40s after World War II. Ben Yeah. Alan And then continued doing that clear up until… Ben Well, my house was built in 1960 and it was the las - - one of the last ones that he built. So your father actually milled the wood and built the house for you… in Shawnee. Ben Yeah, my house was built here and then erected… I’ll be darned! So he actually built in sections. He could build a wall section? Ben Yeah. And a roof section and … Alan In sections. And just bolt together then? Alan He bolted or just nailed it - nailed them in. Ben The wall sections were actually tongue and grooved where they slid together. Really! Ben Just the way it was built. Nice. Alan But he sent houses, got several houses out in Nebraska and there’s some of them up at Lanniger’s Lake and there’s some… well, all over. Ben Yeah, some of the first cabins up there Langer’s Lake he built. And he built them here? Alan Build them here. Now they would ship them thon a truck bed? Ben Yeah. Alan So when they had - - the sections couldn’t be any longer than most of the time, not any longer than 16 feet and then you just put them together and the roof sections would be 8 feet wide and whatever length it took to make the pitch of the roof. Ben Right. Alan So then he’d you know, deliver them to the site and then the neighbor’s would come together and set it up. He had picked up windows in Denver and built the sections - - built the openings to fit these certain windows.. So he’d deliver the windows separately then? Alan The windows and the doors and the roofing came with the kit. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 14 Now interior walls, were they done afterward then, after the… Alan Then the people that bought the house would put them in afterwards. Ben He would supply the lumber if they wanted like knotty pine or such. So a lot of these are obviously still around then. Ben Oh, yeah. SIDE B So you’d build these - - all would be pre-fabricated here and put on a truck bed and then taken out to the site where the foundation was already in place. Alan In place, yeah. And probably take no time at all to put it together. Alan Put it together, yeah. So, he retired doing that and then with what I got old enough to start sawing, then we bought these big you know, million, two million, feet bunches of timber so you had to pretty well stay busy sawing in order to get that cut up. Well, in the 30’s, were there - - I mean, would you buy lumber - - is it board feet when you say million feet. This is board feet? Alan Yeah. This is how it’s measured? Ben Uh-huh. Would you buy leases to - - off of people’s property to lumber a particular tract of land? Is that how it worked? Alan Well, I suppose you could, but it was all Forest Service. Ben Off the Forest Service. Alan Locally here. Okay, so you would bid on… Alan Well, I don’t think - - back in the 30’s and the 40’s, I don’t think you bid on timber. I think you just went out and they would… Ben They’d mark the trees and you’d cut them. Alan You’d cut them. Really! Alan You know, they’d take a little section of ground here and there and they’d just mark it and you just paid them for the trees and go to cuttin’. And then I think… Ben That’s the way they thinned the forest. So it wasn’t a clear-cut type of situation. Ben No. They would mark trees? Ben Yeah. Alan Yeah, they marked - - the Forest Service marked the trees that you cut. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben Bailey, Colorado 15 And there’s areas around here that I can remember that we cut over at least five times. Really. Alan ‘Cause you would cut the trees that weren’t healthy, and then when they grow another ten years, you go back and cut it again. But back in the 30’s, we skidded the logs with a horse. Ben All the cutting was done with a cross-cut saw… Alan By hand Ben An axe… Is that a one-man person, or … Alan One man, Oly Olsen cut - - that’s all he done for Daddy was cut trees. Oly Olsen. There’s a Scandinavian name if I ever heard one. He was a neighbor here? Alan Why, he came him from Sweden! I think he did. He lived up here? Alan He lived in a cabin right here. He was a single fellow. Ben He used to cut with a two-man. Alan Yeah. Ben When we was that big. (gesturing). So you drop a tree with a saw, one or two men, and then you’d have to limit with an axe, okay, and now the top x number of feet probably isn’t of any real value, is it? Alan No, you left in the wood and then you cut the size of logs you wanted out of the tree and then you cut them in eight-foot pieces or twelve-foot, whatever you were going to cut out of them – saw out of them – and then pulled them to the - - where you could get to them and load them on a truck and you loaded them on the truck up a plank by hand and a cat-hook. So you had like a winch that would pull a log up? Ben No… Alan No,… Ben You just rolled them by hand. Alan Rolled them. These are eight-foot logs; how big in diameter? Alan Oh, we’ve rolled them on as big as them barrels, fifty-gallon barrels. That would weigh a lot! Alan And then when you sawed them in the saw mill, you’d turn them. You cut one side, and rolled them by hand. Just used one of these turn-hook things? Alan Yeah, cat-hook. Ben You ever see a cat-hook? I’m thinking it’s a pole with a half-moon hook on the end. Ben Well, watch this (gesturing). This is a big one. Yeah. That’s exactly what I pictured it. Ben This is a big one. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 16 That looks like a very old one, too. So that would just rotate a log then. Alan Yeah. Now in the place you cut it, you would use a horse to drag it to the truck? Alan Where you could get the truck into it, you know. Okay, the horse could go almost anywhere. Alan Anywhere, yeah. Then you rolled them up on the truck and - - but back in them days, you didn’t put more than a dozen logs on, you know. I guess! Now you were doing this in summer and winter both. Ben Right. Alan Yeah, year-round, yeah. We never, never - - though there’s days we didn’t work but now the last ten years, I don’t think we’ve missed a day because we don’t have winter anymore. Yeah, it seems like it. How far were some of these cutting areas away from here? Alan Oh, not more than … Ben About three miles. Alan Three miles, five miles. Here, your location is great, you’re surrounded. Alan Back in them days, we logged in the 40’s over on the Berger property between here and Bailey. That’s private land? Ben Yeah. Alan That was private. Okay, so you’d also get private land. Alan That was the only I think we ever cut. Ben I think so. The rest of it was all Forest Service. Alan All Forest Service around, yeah. How did they ever determine what fee would be - - is it per tree or per track of ground? Alan Thousands. Back in them days, I remember paying $3 a thousand. Thousand board feet? Alan Board feet. So you’d have to look at a tree and estimate what the board footage is? Alan Forest Service had a way to estimate that. Ben A scale stick, a type of scale stick. Alan After the tree was cut down then you had to scale, a stick that had numbers on it that told how many feet was in that log. Oh, okay. A lot of work. Ben Yeah, you scaled it all when it was - - after you cut it. Alan Cut it, back in the olden days. Now, not anymore you don’t. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben Bailey, Colorado 17 No, not now. Is there a Forest Service rep that would be out there with you or would he be here, or how would he ever - - where would you actually do this measurement? Alan When you pile the logs up – when you skidded the logs – before you hauled them out of the woods, then the Forest Service would check them. Okay, so they’d have a representative come and do the estimates? Ben Mm-hmm, the estimates. Alan But they estimated the trees standing before you cut them. Okay, that worked out then. Alan Yeah. So you want to be on good friendly terms with that guy. Alan Yeah. (laughter) But anyway, yeah, they still estimate even this burned timber that we bought here, it’s already been - - we know how much we’re buying when we buy it before we cut it. So when you’re logging in the late 30’s, early 40’s, that was going to railroad ties; it was going to cribbing; what else - log cabins? Alan Log cabins and mining. We supplied some mines above Alma and … Ben Well, and then the tunnel. Alan And then the tunnel… Ben The Blue River Tunnel. How about the Roberts Tunnel? Ben Roberts Tunnel. Alan Yeah, Roberts Tunnel. That’s the same thing. Ben Yes. Alan So we got over a million board feet went in there anyway, we cut for that. That’s amazing. Alan Over a million. ‘Cause all the railroad ties and then there was supposed to be a mill on the other side in Montezuma that was supposed to supply the other side, but sometimes they didn’t get enough and then we would run behind on this side. How would you get jobs. Did you - - people just knew that you were in the business and that they would come to you and say, “I need x number of feet?” Alan Right, ‘Cause we never advertised; we still don’t advertise. Well, you’ve been here so long, people know that you’re here and if they need timbers like this, this is the place to come. Are there other mills that are operating in the area? Alan No…down by Woodland Park, Pine Junction, Johnny Gossage has a little mill, but he don’t cut very much. Dick Welch in Fairplay has a little one-man mill and that’s about all there’s left anymore. In Evergreen, there’s a - - up Bear Creek there’s a little mill. Oh, really. Ben But this is the only planing mill. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 18 Okay, so you do more than just saw. You do the planing, forming, shaping logs and I noticed you have - - this makes the interlocking logs apparently. (gesturing). Alan And knotty pine and siding and… So you do siding, too then? Alan Log siding. You had married - what years? What year was it? Alan 1960. So you’d been living here, working in the mill all this time and you got married here. You got married. Did you live on the property at that time or did you move to some other location at that same time or how did you do that? Alan No, I bought property at Singleton. Where’s that? Alan Where the Silver Tip Lodge is. Oh okay. That’s called Singleton? Ben Singleton. Alan That’s called Singleton. I never heard that term before. Ben Well, that’s what – it’s on the map as Singleton. Is it really? Alan Yeah, that’s the railroad days. Okay, so you bought some property there. Alan Bought some property there and then he bought property up… Ben In Friendship. Alan Friendship in 1960. Where did you meet your brides? Ben Square-dancing. Alan Square-dancing. Really. (laughter). In Denver or out here or where? Alan At the Lone Pine Ballroom in Little Deer Creek. The Lone Pine Ballroom. Alan Of course it’s not even there anymore. Ben Phillipsburg. Alan In Phillipsburg. But then you continued to work here during that period. Ben Yeah. Did you - - and during the War, you were saying, you were making crates for shipment for these were government contracts? Alan Yeah, but mainly we just hauled the lumber to Denver. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 19 Yeah, you didn’t actually make the crates. You mentioned though, that your father actually made lettuce crates by himself? Alan Lettuce crates. Ben Yeah, that’s where he… That’s where ?pin? stock, isn’t it? Alan Right, yeah. So he was able to make that right here and was it for his own operation exclusively or did he sell the crates in Denver? Alan Sold the crates in Denver. Okay, so the other farmer would be able to … (inaudible). That’s amazing you could grow lettuce up here. I just can’t imagine growing lettuce at this elevation. Alan Well, Fitzsimmons Burland Ranchettes. Perry Fitzsimmons owns Burland Ranchettes and back in the early days, that was what the made their money off of, was raising potatoes and lettuce. And the soil was good enough for the potatoes? Because I would think the … Ben That was great potatoes! They sold a lot of potatoes. Do you think there’s less moisture now and that’s why you can’t grow things like that? It certainly isn’t because of a longer season. It’s warmer now than it was then. Ben Yeah. Alan So, I don’t know. Ben I would say it would be the moisture, something in the sandy soil up there. Alan I was talking to somebody here not too long ago said they remember - - but there ain’t too many people that remember back then anymore, back in the early… Ben Well, even the 50’s. Alan Well, they didn’t raise any in the 50’s I don’t think. When did Burland - - when was … Ben Burland Ranchettes started in… Alan I don’t remember. I know Deer Creek Valley goes back to the 60’s, late 60’s. That’s when (inaudible). Ben This is early 60’s ‘cause it was about the time we got married that they started subdividing Burland Ranchettes. Alan And then Jess Fitzsimmoms from Shawnee…he was a - - you’ve probably got some literature on Jess Fitzsimmons, don’t you? I don’t myself, but you know, there’s a gal out of Alma who is basically managing this project and she’s the one that has the list of who we’re trying to interview. So I’ll have to ask her about Jess Fitzsimmons. I’ll have to ask her and see if that’s one of the individuals on the list. Alan Course now he’s - he passed away in… late - - no, it’s probably in the 70’s, huh? Ben Yeah, early 70’s. Alan But he used to be a ranger – Forest Service. Oh, okay, so he was familiar with then area then. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 20 Alan In this country and then …they used to - - back in the early days, they run a lot of cattle in this country all over the forest, you know. What is the connection with Carl Soderstrom and your father. Where did they first meet, do you recall? Alan Through the Holbergs. And the Holbergs are… Alan The Holbergs was … Ben Cousins to the …Soderstoms. Alan Is that the way it is? Ben Yeah… Alan Well yeah, Carl Soderstom, his dad and the Holbergs dad was brothers. Okay. Alan No, it was … Ben Had to be a sister in there somewhere. Alan Has to be a sister or something, huh? Ben Yeah. Alan Didn’t Carl say? You know, I’d have to look back on the tape. Unfortunately I don’t even have a copy of the tape. I turn that to the County and I’d have to go all back and listen to the original. But I remember him saying that he grew up on a southeastern Colorado sod farm basically. Alan Yeah. And then he came up here I guess with his father, actually his family came up here and then he started working at the mill here. Ben Our dad helped them move up here. Yeah. There was a close relationship there. Alan When I was a baby, he was saying I was a baby or - - and Daddy took the old truck and went out there and moved them up here. Well, he showed me the cabin that they lived in and it’s still there. It’s in - - it’s getting pretty rough condition, but it’s still there. Beautiful meadow that it sits in. Ben Yeah, it is. Just a gorgeous location. Alan Then there used to be the Bancrofts and then the Mendenhall’s and then the - - there’s some of the people at Wellington Lake; the Paynes and course, there’s some of them relations that the gal that was out here when I was gone, Ben Yeah, she’s a Banc… Alan And … but Mom and Dad talked about riding horseback or in the buggy and going for parties over by Wellington Lake to them people in the wintertime and in the summertime and playing cards and stuff when we were little or babies anyway. What does happen to be interesting up here? I mean, especially if you’re very young, you’re really - - you didn’t have friends that were closer, right? Alan No… Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 21 And there was nobody within walking distance, so it was basically your family. Ben Yeah, right. That was it. And you had - - wood heat and kerosene lighting and long winters that were very cold. That would be different! Ben Yeah, it was. Alan We didn’t know no different. Exactly. You know, people did what they needed to do and I’m sure fifty years from now, people will say, “How could possibly survive with what you have?” Alan Oh, it was easy! Ben Yeah. Yeah, I guess in a lot of ways it was. Did you ever have any injuries or did you ever have any real concerns about health up here? Alan No, we didn’t catch nothing ‘cause you didn’t see anybody that had anything. That’s true. Nobody would infect you. Ben Yeah. ‘Cause you’re probably pretty much by yourself up here. The only time you had outside was when you were shopping or selling some of the wood. Ben And if we cut ourself, we’d just wash it out with diesel fuel and go o. I remember my grandmother using kerosene. Ben Yeah, well, same thing. Same thing, exactly. Ben If you got a sore throat, you gargled with kerosene. Alan With kerosene. Oh really? You gargle with it? Alan Or take a teaspoon of sugar, drip some kerosene on it… Ben And chew on it. Alan And chew on it. And that would work. Alan That was for sore throat. Okay (laughter) Did it work? Ben Yeah, it worked; we’re still living! Apparently! (laughter) Are there any other home remedies you used that you recall that you used? (Pause) What were your favorite foods up here? You grew here in summer… Ben Yeah. Did you actually butcher the cattle? Alan Yeah. So you had beef, you had pork… Ben Deer. Alan Deer. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 22 So you’d go hunting for local deer? Okay, so you had plenty up here. Ben And all this - - all the meat was canned. Really! You’d can the meat, you wouldn’t smoke it? Ben No, canned it. Yeah, deer canned, was real good. Alan I guess you got to know the right recipe, but … I’m sure. I never heard of canning meat. So you’d cook it first? Ben Cook it and then put it in a jar and seal it and … Okay and then keep it in that stone cellar? Ben Either that or in - - we had like a fruit cellar in the basement. (Inaudible) Alan Then in the summer we had ice boxes, an ice box in the house. Okay, where did the ice come from in the summer? Alan Ice came from Fitzsimmons Lake in Shawnee in January. Would they ship all summer then? Alan We had an ice house like in February or first of march before it melt – ice started melting. Daddy’d get a couple truckloads of ice and we would pack it in sawdust and that would last all summer. You’d store it up here? Ben Yeah. So you had your own little ice house here. Alan Yeah. And it would stay all summer. Alan Oh yeah. Stay all summer ‘til winter. Packed in sawdust. ‘Cause I also heard they’d pack it in straw sometimes, too. Ben Sawdust really would keep it. Would you buy it in Bailey, or actually - - where would they store it in Bailey or where would they store it? Ben We’d just get it off the lake. You got it right as it was being cut. Ben Cut, yeah. And they would take it up by train in the Denver and store in Denver for … Alan That’s what all them lakes were. Right. They were dammed up at the south fork of the North Platte River and it would just divert into those ponds and freeze up and they would saw it up. I think there’s still actually some sleds that are still left there adjacent to that area. So that’s what they would do. They’d get it in spring and you’d store it here and stay all… Alan Sometimes we’d go to Wellington Lake and cut it ourself. Really. So you’d have just a saw and you go out on the lake and start sawing. Ben We had a regular ice saw. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Alan 23 Cut it by hand. Ben Bailey, Colorado Take a horse and a - - to pull it up on the truck. How big a block were these? Alan Oh, two, three hundred pounds…blocks. A lot of work. Everything was so much more of a challenge than it is today. Alan Then you had to figure out how much you needed for the summer. So the ice house was partially underground. Alan Oh, sort of like. Ben Sort of like, yeah. Somebody told me the Platte Canyon Church was originally a barn that was used for storing ice. Do you recall anything like that? Ben It was a barn, I know that. Alan I know that, but… Ben I don’t remember about the ice but it could have. Alan Because it was the post - - the old post - - between that and Moore Lumber in there, that used to be a lake. Oh really. Ben Yeah. That was a - - well, the ice … Alan The ice … Oh, that was an ice pond? Alan yeah, ice pond there. Between Moore Lumber and where? Alan And the church. Oh, that whole strip in there. Ben Yeah. Well actually, the dam went across - - well, just about by Moore Lumber and the new Post Office, wasn’t it? Alan Yeah. That makes sense ‘cause it’s parallel to the creek, so all you had to do is divert the creek into it and it’d form up a nice little pond. Ben Then there was one … Alan Then there was – there two lakes. There’s one lake below Shawnee but then there was two more below that. Cross from the school where the new football field is. Right. Ben Yeah, that was ice. You can see some of the areas that are dammed up yet that - - in fact, I think there is a sled that’s out there yet that was probably used for harvesting ice. …What do you consider the most difficult thing you had to face out here? Alan Oh, I don’t know! Ever give that any thought as to what you considered to be the most difficult part of living out here? Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben 24 I don’t know, we always had our own food. Alan Bailey, Colorado Getting to Denver, I guess. Did you ever get lonely up here? Alan No, there was too many things to do! Ben We was always busy. Always busy. Ben Lot of times, the only times us kids got to go to school was when we went down to get clothes for school for the year. I remember that and if you got a pair of shoes, that had to last you until next year. Oh, I’m sure. And you probably went through shoes out here if you’re doing this kind of work, you’d probably go through some shoes. Ben So, you had to get them big enough and then of course, there’s nothing insulated. Alan didn’t have insulated shoes then. Ben I can remember Mom pulling an old pair of wool socks on the outside of your boot to keep your feet warm from freezing in the winter. Well, yeah it had insulated at that point in time. Alan Yeah. I remember talking to Barbara Tripp and she said that they went through shoes a lot because the granite, you know, in that area is pretty tough on shoes and they did a lot of hiking so yeah, that was a toughy. So in particular, everything worked out pretty well being up here. It really - - you probably have a lot of time to think about it, what you’d like to have! Ben Right, uh-huh. Alan When we went to school here, why then we only went six months. Oh, just six months. Alan Yeah, we went to school right here. At the house? Ben Yeah. Alan In what - - Ben What used to be a chicken house. Alan Yeah. You’re mother home-school you then? Alan No, we had a teacher come in. Really! So like come in each day? Alan No, lived right here. We had a place for her to stay and … Oh really! So this was in the 30s again. Ben Well, the late 40’s. So you had a teacher for the three of you. Alan The first teacher we had, had two kids of her own, so then there was five of us and then when Bill Gunther bought the ?Feazler? place or which is Caldwell’s now, then … Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Ben Bailey, Colorado 25 They had two boys. Alan So then there was … the most there ever was though going to school here would be seven. Ben Yeah. And that was in the chicken coop. Alan Yeah, it was in the chicken coop. Well, that’s kind of neat, having a teacher right here! Ben Yeah. That was her full-time job as a - - it was a lady that came in and lived here… Alan Lived here, a single lady, yeah. And was just here for six months and then she goes someplace else? Ben Yeah. Alan Where ever her home was, I guess. I don’t know! I don’t remember where she was from or - - must have been - - had to be from Jefferson county I imagine. And she was paid by the county and so she just lived her. Basically she got room and board here and that was it. Ben Yeah. And for six months. So she was like part of the family for that period of time. Alan That’s right. Then the 7th grade, then we drove to Buffalo and then 8th grade, then we built the cabin in Arvada and stayed down there. That was a regular school, a public school? Ben Yeah, a high school, yeah. Alan Arvada High School. Ben It was credited, there was a high school there where Id-Ra-Ha-Je that was the Platte Canyon School, but it wasn’t credited then and if we was going to go on schooling more, like college, whey then we had to go to a credited school. That’s interesting. Id-Ra-Ha-Je when it was first created or that’s what the high school was before Id-Ra-Ha-Je took over, was not even an accredited school. Ben No. Because I was told that Id-Ra-Ha-Je was put in basically because of Roberts Tunnel workers. Is that true? Because there were a lot of workers coming specifically into the county to work on a tunnel and so as a result of that, they needed to increase the school facilities and that’s when they took over. Alan That’s when they built the school at Shawnee. Oh, that’s the Shawnee location. That’s what took over for the for Id-RaAlan Ha-Je. Yeah. Ok, that makes sense. Alan But I don’t think that was Id-Ra-Ha-Je then. No, no they bought it after it had been turned out of - - it stopped being a high school. Ben Yeah. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 26 Your father wanted you to go to college? Alan Yeah. What made you not go? Why didn’t you go? Alan Well, there was plenty of work right here (laughter). Ben And I don’t think any of us really like school that well. Okay, there’s the real reason. What years were you in high school? Alan High school would be from ’48 to ’52. So that was the Korean War period. So you came out in the low ‘50s; came out of high school in the early 1950’s. Alan Yeah, I graduated in 1952. Ben And I graduated in ’54. And you came back here and… Ben Yeah, worked ever since. Been working here at the mill. Do you regret anything about having done that? Ben Not really. Obviously, you’ve done well, you’ve got quite a business going, and you’ve done what you wanted. It’s very impressive, actually. Alan Just now, if that fire hadn’t of burned the saw mill down… Ben We could have retired. Alan We could have retired. Yeah, isn’t that funny how things like that come up. Were there fires in the 30’s and 40’s that you recall? Ben Yeah. Alan Oh yeah, every summer. Ben But they would be just small. Nothing like what we’ve been having recently. Ben Because everything wasn’t’ as dry as what it’s been. So that’s the primary reason we’re getting these big fires now. Ben Yeah. And then you mentioned too, that they used to have these thinning programs where they would thin - - you know, you’d be logging, but you’d be thinning the woods and that would eliminate a lot of the fuel that’s now causing these fires to be so intense. Ben Yeah. Alan Course see, this country was all pretty well burned off in the late 1800’s. Just natural fires? Alan Natural fires you know, and then see, then a lot of the timber that’s we cut in the 40’s and 50’s had fire scars on them from the fire in around 1900. Right at the turn of the century. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 27 Alan A lot of the country burned off between Mt. Evans and Pikes Peak around 1900, I don’t know exactly when it was. Most of these trees then that just recently burned, they were less than a hundred years old. Alan then. Yeah, all the smaller stuff, eight, ten inch stuff, that would be stuff that’s growed up since So a big one like here (gesturing)… Alan The big one here, the fire didn’t kill it, see. So that pre-dates the turn of the century probably. Alan Yeah, so that tree there is 300 years old. Really! Wow. Alan Probably, three hundred years ago. And it got torched in this last fire? Alan Yeah. What is your plan now? Are you going to work or a few more years or… Alan Yeah, probably another, let’s see… I’m 75 anyway. You have to enjoy this work! You have to. Alan Everyday is something different. Sure, that’s true and you have to get a lot of satisfaction out of creating something out of logs. Alan And building this machinery and keeping it going and … Well, that’s the other thing, you had to be very creative to be out here and doing this. So in a sense you’re carrying on your father’s tradition of doing whatever you need to do. Ben He makes all the knives and stuff for different patterns. You just make them yourself. Ben Yeah. Do you have your own machine shop then, or you have your own (inaudible) machine? Alan That grinder there (gesturing) and the cut-off thing and the drill press. Well, you’ll do with what you’ve got to do. Alan And then if we do any milling work well, I’ve got a couple of lathes. Right. And repair parts. I would imagine you need to turn some parts occasionally. Alan ‘Cause we make parts out of old parts. For most thing, sometimes you don’t - you have to buy new stuff. I imagine it must be fun trying to find replacement parts for some of this equipment. Alan Well, like this planer and all, there’s parts. You can still the thing? Alan Oh, any parts you want for that. It’s three days away is all. And this is a 1940’s? Alan It’s 1949. Park County Local History Archives �EOS, ALAN and BEN Bailey, Colorado 28 1949 mill. The planer. Alan Yeah, Yates American A20. Now the one that the motor that I had, that was a sevenhead Watkins motor. I don’t know what year it was; it was probably made in the late ‘70’s, but it was all electric. It had seven electric motors on each; a seven-head electric and then electric motor on the feed, but it was real easy to set up and change from you know, to go from you know, log siding to knotty pine paneling in fifteen minutes. End of tape/ Park County Local History Archives � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ben and Alan Eos on July 24, 2002 Subject The topic of the resource Sawmills; Families – History; Genealogy Description An account of the resource Interview with Ben and Alan Eos at the Eos Mill about their parent's migration to Colorado and eventual settling in Park County, and growing up at the mill Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hult, Bob Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of one audio-cassette with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of two files. A transcript does accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2002-07-24 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Eos, Ben; Eos, Alan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp5 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Eos_B_A_01a; oh_Eos_B_A_01b Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Bailey (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 214a624c-6083-48f3-a172-9d67a579b746 Sawmills https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/23c208dd1a31da5c52a36ec8a32eff6a.mp3 b12d22b80c2f801f45d9cfc5c965a1e6 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/49e4b1e3a05ed3a9e342a45d72e8697b.mp3 7fe29fe8ebced72aa2a10c1e182fd118 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/102bb8e3eed5267dc22a34e2ef2bbe6f.mp3 140496f92c708801ab35aefa163d072c https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/54961972c21343931e11d6787c72b4cb.mp3 cfe43ca2c05c22fe62f2f10d076b961a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Delmer Frees on September 27, 2002 Subject The topic of the resource Homesteading; Families – History; Genealogy; Rural schools Description An account of the resource Interview with Delmer Frees on his family's migration to Park County, homesteading, and local schools and teachers Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doyle, Cara Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of two audio-cassettes with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of four files. A transcript does not accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2002-09-27 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Frees, Delmer Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp5 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Frees_D_01a; oh_Frees_D_01b; oh_Frees_D_02a; oh_Frees_D_02b Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Hartsel (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 9a84b68d-b528-494b-ba62-d62839be6bb8 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/26182d7568736c4166007050fc9ac4ec.pdf 212f03642ffb5af3d225db56223f7d75 PDF Text Text THE V. Proviiion*. Georgetown. tude to the Contractorand C. H. Rooms A Provisions, Georgetown. COLLINS, new COLORADO. Colorado, lying to the south and Georgetown, and counties, .may Ammj mining Keepa on supply a Main St.. Cor. 2d. in Clear of ore sacks for sale. It examination remote is close that districts valuable & of paratively discoveries have GOODS, CLOTHING, DRY Article*, Hats Corner Taos and and Alpine Hts.. FANCY Cnp». prospectors It should be fair ery and velopment TO NOTICE AND MINING MINERS Ores, in Gold STJCWARTSILVER Knqulre of J. tions COMPANIES. prices paid forall kinds of or small large quantities, by Thehighest CASH and Hilver REDUCING MRS. L. the COMPARY. RuptrintmUent. O. Htkwart. Mil y Miners raitem.usdr Clot king. ORE BACKS CONSTANTLY ON HAND Streets. HT, JProprirtor, College Graduate of the Mass. Dealer in and Drugs Patent Medicines, A I.SO IN Watches, Clocks, Jewelry k Fancy Goods. The share Aaaayß Assay Office. officela now open for business. for Gold, Silver, correctly and promptly eto., STGBLTING. 11. Office over Copper, Lead, made at moderate rotes. Territorial Assayer. (larbareno'a prospecting AOINT abundant ment to of Hleamshlps to all OFFICE AT L. THE 0., I*. ofEurope. GEORGETOWN. and. Sign Graining, Paper Hanging Hliop Painter, k Glaring. Alpine Street. on however, lodes POP CLEAR CIVIL AMD CREEK river, several that WINING Officein the County Recorder’s the Otf riLLU'N that 4k HIT calities MO’COY, AT A LAW, MORRISON, OKNTKK, AT LAW, COLORADO. is than that of proved CORNU GEORGETOWN, ROM* is to mining be The years and Coun- COL. exported the is to than the other good remained to in detached sales were the gold were so prices prevailed in where a in Park the tracting same these time county sold to Eastern par- for labor and ns well as ores, in Park for else- coupled this method gold supplies of ignorance con- the treat- soon demora- county. Her the attention of shameful waste is about over. mines skilled of are at- laborers valuableores Under world. been accumulation the classes alone, gold of chambers and addicted by passion the the by Ills going stlmn- Accord- day, annually exported trade in given now as gold. ing purposes, most uses, And it is used as a as quantities, of fa- $BO, coin, of Warren Groat for process the East is as the balance and danger gold. taken out of the more drug stored Hand hold usos for it, avmrlcious on to it. con- in value was no has for gold a is think that more quite we of the Territory, too Into to do much -tit to become and too much until tho noxt public hoping, however, Legislature nothing to wish for will this on “Have you tho k There many hands to clutch r, W. yet not to see, We caine, present to be than hotel certainly is big Boston’s their bunds of the for tho House, of the ergy We season. tho Teller under it will bo The but public scend pluck fall, and primary the taught elsewhere. niaungeinent assistants, of principal is, finely.. Unlike some towns of,” Central, greatly like too is est in the ready Territory, for Tho use. believe, we rough rocks But the of that noble glory of public buildings, had 15th, of the rare The ol to The Aside from the a very ordained to Presbyterian ganised in 1800, ordinary of a I routine examina- ministerial church dwindled bas stirred the community starts work. ofC'entral, Quite a vari Terri- Golden City, satisfactory the had the church tho churches of tlio two members. now this themselves members, representing business, Mr. Lowrie, tion, grand a for feel would off down to late, and anew j tin- comes region TAtILK - the is USDS rise to The numerous which sustain of streams bunch thrown A arrest- and carefully they range whose di- topog- series of an AH favorite the The abound in those buffalo When in through even and the riv- these these speck- elk, the black-tailed rich pastures, visitod away. the South animals blackened their most the been driven 1844, Fremont herds of these surface, h(forded making the but Park by snow- and abode of the and has in Fremont “the para- antelope, sheep well-beaten practicable with ing. There are red men or the Bison park*. disappearthe noblef?> are of either left to inhab- , | The would was I placed but I Asleep, him, and the tho material, at least spoak to my I for ir ta- boy’s quitely good his glor- to me save for solemn those better for us tho the and helped human life.” Presi- worn on as it aud toll you the to You have and, so, lessons not the .lives from of the the pure. by Means of Large Drills. in sinking A drill used cient size to admit and the extraction time same world. tho passage is sufficient before now mining apparatus is tho invention Hugo Sontag of St. Louis, who had ing operations conaiderable experience to this of high in first much fifteen as by German scientif- in and foot a similar and be were shafts diameter. in shaft could about what Kind drilled who Westphalia in that for struct who recommended Kiudormann engineers operations proved in bor- and Germany, country standing as Their France, sunk in this it would cost to con- by the ordinary methods, utjjler favorable circumstances. machinery employed by them was a one The complicated, and experienced fo:e their and skillful system has general use. used could be used to The sand-pump clean out method consists in two feet in main there- which finely the especially into como to a pursued sinking a by they com- ohjectionn smaller diameter, which hundred shall, feet Mr. in Sontag hole, he keeps advance say from of the Into which the debris large hole is drained. Near the top of the machine la a dropping mechanism, which alio we the free fall of the drill frame and hits, which sre from the and Kind's modi- any adapted used this ill a tiie the to that im- way, two one a hoisting en- single act- engine. fireman, a A black- a the are force work.—Mining out the The Celebration. Centennial “The Commissioners States Territories, and from the different in 1870, in Philadelphia, liminary Convention, fect an tees. cut, Centennial for the Celebration of American Independence, have held J. (Jen. 11. elected was President Foreign Affairs, pre- to ef- commit- of Connecti- Committees mission. a that city, in organization, and appoint of the Com- apointed were on Legislation, Plans and Architecture, Opening Services, Finance, Tariff and utive W, Transportation, Committee. dress Blake, of the New York and the Paris department of mineral York it in Blake department, and applications by thousands, and spread tlio ningdistricts and ments,the the says: exam- we might in blank them, broad- mails, reaching tho mi- metallurgical responses producers The We of the for print circulars cast, through 1853, to resources, found that although was defects in 1807. referring exhihiton, Mr. “In tho mineral ple, ami Fair, Exposition, sentences, New ad- the ob- on success World’s few a Exec- nn by .Commissioner, of Connecticut, jects, plans, general quote and interesting An delivered was P. of few were establish- and scanty. materials have raw special pecuniary no inducements to exhib- It is rare that they appreciate their duty to the industrial arts, and to the piiblict iii great exhibitions. It was,there- it. fore, in the case of tho New bition, necessary, a and order in representation proper exhi- efforts, direct in persons, York all exhibitions, in as special competent to by secure those direc- the display tions. exposition, “Iu the Paris of and raw the production and Through mining Belgium, and other countries, displays side of the special establishments. that the develop- spocial government. and of forestry, Prussia, Austria, complete and very secured, were contributions out- of great And here allow me to say we may rightfully exgaot much from intelligentcooperationofour own de- partment of agriculture, agricultural ceive little societies. special eral take domain care The of the of Iteelf. and But care or Government. the of the the well-organised departments the France, under because materials, raw industrial is patronage of agriculture, of in so, chiefly, these tho nation, ment of a care was of underlie which products, unmanufactured and superb; was torn State our mines re- patronage magnificent United So of from min- States is left to our threats. In these Important department*, of which, in a young country like tions expect, and, without hope heeded. dress, tee on man. na- this the will be so again,” wise suggestion will he of Mr, Blake's ad, result appoiotmtartftf a oommit- Claasifieation.ofwMchh* I* eta*Another reeult creetlou ought tg -i• fie t» eseuse Jpf" representationJf. t the mioent ' of complete a special agenny the nat. other to see a very promWe were deficient In 1853, os re, One was ours, of right, inent display. “We The sixty was only by and men, never ef- as employs is blow inven- of tho holo is workmen, to carry the The impossible. shaft and four of the surface for that without it the on sloping least twice well so causes blow rock so at which a and con- consid- givos bottom required; are with into tlio smaller clear the seem boro effective Messrs. way for room The of Mr. the of men, tho a foreman,an engineer, suffi- of minerals and at the afford pumps etc., shafts of drainage is from strong while the and the other to make Shaft-Sinking the apparatus and tubbing, provements screws. apparatus, Mr. Sontag for purpose Cabinet his side. him here to poor thought opened arms, blessed canto news. which I his at my in his hands did I was his ever President So I with his head on in waited in vain—- answer, and there resting there the door of to no I my room, tho fate of knock. and case but debate Cabinet adjourn- for the ino case go up me, tho up ble. those parks during the summer cow-lodges, but as winter approachtiie herd Is driven into the down plains.” the Itison only a few in Senate, the pardon Mr. Lincoln. was no deed, a “The loft; you route region, but now they do not approach the foothills. The Utes es it the after whoso minuted rock Ibo Utes and name tho cross-bar, powerful that it is It of Gazette. evident- the on been waiting trails use The said. site out and tell come men almost perennial deer still the wulled melting to with ic circles. springs grass, to sent my full, or fications. Cabinet out entno that a or the shaft. to tho when as curclagc , afternoon tho rushing into liuyo "I and I sat came KNOWN the r o. strike against, required be- office, delight, has gracing animals," and trout. mountain the since,” ed, history, scon; to came hor hand. jnst and in the valleys verdant by A the seen to strike claims To re- added. are extraordinarily effective. gines a blow the side dowu hole, always keep White until, perhaps, that night, when my fe- o’clock with a beob- miniature a here feature j I I | be he finds that striking of all led 10 friend ious re- as or- religious Interest of disc of my male appears instantaneously mountains. growth interest work waked in when the elements of of what is parks according very Presbyterian tory. spec- great obligations! Presbytery was compose I of sev- enteen ous under sea, of this are ulets the residence of And good people seemed brought social and which can and he pardon signed find surface conforming lines, lIIOH gives meet- were culminated in and collation at Mr. A. J. Van Deren. tho raphy snowy they enter- were who from I time bo bottom and the ing, tho from to prevent the bits the walls wcigiit smith, morn- tho to yet impression ble roar broad, country in and to in the Sen- yet adjourned. not de- in the wildest commotion. petrified, nearly They in ho and dent “PARKS.” not all at its late wives, and tho occasion reunion is only of matter mass corrugated Another ample opportunity Right royally tained with thoir ially invited, summit confused were flie members of of Colorado, the on the and late returned deep the which the in the struts guides rock at each tor the breaking the struction of the drill frame to desertion, long a passed in, rection is N. W. and S. 8. E. are had This is a structure. Central as fire in energy, over to escape stratigraphically, larg- congregation blazing letters, all written, in rush prossed a me her who had next it in the excitement of there term is on aid for very wait to was ante-chambers, I exumiue tho structure of the mountains Is all but enterprise, and perseverance of the Such and yet,when thogeologist honor, tho Spanish and I day in there rail- Hock-bedded view of the representation we’ve“hearn building, a and up ed and believes in schools. M. E. church Their by called death got there, Lincoln, soldier, passes even streams the contour of the tumultuous and four her the course, they Ascending tained, flourishing to effort, of a torrent-stream plains. onward bird's-eye under the Hale learned, wo the dulating plains. the department schoo'., Tho the after pose dis- alreuly is enable mountains. of all to their en- of by rock-walled, they often building, completed school are routes affords the held servo bits, It will Is by into to, from of the bits are the bits to of this means way alluded prevent to also perfects se- have towards removed he being forced inwards. small rods, formed its already inclined edges, These square, sand-pump. or Keys By sand finds easily order not clean. of that One pardoned still in session. Mr. radiant properly, incorporated very expressive in character at last, forever the ancient ago last year a echelon vocabulary our walloil ready rejoice that, and the man removes to, numerous summits. lady forgot bar- exhausting loftiest en have, “canon”aa the monument of the a into place. tlio now, carpontors, and In fective very a rentomber President much P»is- labor a roluctantly. accompany her It wo chamber We question.” to heart, which may be surmounted “orgin”—the credit a Approaching completion in roads. conquered. we—were by to in the inces- of was made they practicable afford can ceiver iron, of long, slope being shaft. the hole, thorn to get some woro timo to kin- Capitol Old soldier were during or anxious to appeals to of the called upon friends the as profound thought, and full of some I stated the object of our great subject. call, and leaving tho lady in one of tho the mountains intersected arrangement To wlion ly and grandeur in it she had could to sap- impenetrable an without scale to We and was Bunyan John or glad ntc had business to bo shot the was which of approached, very explorer, question. “that is the saw, we of any as to hour an not had was onergetio House. of snow- something is distance, the when their to leave hotel?” new re- aud raro was upon am near found Central. the seen there comparable not rier, CORRESPONDENCE. to tints up twenty- inclined about 30° the quickly which it of all Secretary wits constant private fore I mountains" delectable appear the that tlio next Territory of the ate, ideal, unearthly. cations, which are the Bathed in that atmosphere Whilo in per- on gold. and I sentenced ing. Over tho that Iter to the a been As tree best occurs hardly undertook very got these. as meet- sentiment flashed back are wore now excepting, rock aud while from The make absorbing and I peaks masses as man, but the lubor a ruvealed with wonder- are revealed to the vision other is, however, Legislature, create a we bject. Wo us feel very It and broad I was demands and landscape While These sant on horizon. reading in the army, never then hanging “the tho in thrown arrangeinont erable day take scene this very but the love, landscape the only busy serra- mountains the crags, distinctness, clear newspapers write. on. pyramidal, illuminating shade, slope phire of The up nro and fields the and some of the western wltolo ful moun- entitled to miners, this.point. do on of the tlio snow- cloud-bank great strict a forth in those would poor fellow out of the Interme- this set war and justice. of sense connected with the the centre of the the pleas- the slots of the fall which made entirely cutting edge* drill wings, up the drop down in height thnn fifteen feet horizontal, the bending stu- a a push and hold the down- on horizontal bars. bits, their It should letters of the soldiers and narrated departments, or jutting amidst The some Who will wings being fiv<»inches rods smaller for re- thcessenee with sympathies, of the the dred looms scalp, The the blow operated by ears (he and bits thus receive is more by cured home, away not of and of man, hiesssed help somebody who north, nearly of contour; projecting grassy private any for tilled in with mountains morn. a suu comes tlio assay Legislature that we ing of to have received, we certain several are from the than much the Tho solves itselflnto definite outlines. or dif- little, but conscientious Sonato there with rounded outlines. verge the suggest- add part in this tains, are Territory the value of We, offices. was, after twenty- probability, in the market of the world. many grasping and in There is than that silver will ever too were gold yet and There is of of the trade is earth, to-day than it years ago. therefore, are would inevitably to learn. more for'ali that we have interest and *ex- falling tho light cost were will lode, within the style, large I with its best time to view early at and plncing the laid aro One of those incidents Pike’s seen more, or peaks. of crater-like, some some resemble sec- and pro- from ovary deposited, would ing coin for is great provided offices, be made ed, Presbytery America. of silver Since 1848 thousand years before, five provide To im- hoarding of in generation. after ted, and ferent districts. trial riches still going and on, long against Europe than of of should he Assay specimens of other mineral the the that had been generation same up wonderment piles by Hastings, been In 1788, in and gaze seized no more be- large in locked are hoarded riches of India as af- gold, goes, bankers. away tinue cheaper sought like alap, Hastings, to the England. This therein The manu- to the East, and three millions the vaults or rich mense silver serviceable than much as Silver, dollars every year posod used for it is much more just hoarding. lor ter would state that extensively oven now facturing wo Territory, provisions per congories ofevory variety impos- tho letters and laborious Carlyle, like and romance. plains trucod be and to tho diate distance is small appropri- ofUabiuets, showing New York the of material? what would be not rarely from the south is 60 miles clad flanks and bare cheaply is the plains, the the Under the this To distant “The the different at tell addition, and,for office, small, in "00,0000. is to the ation made to each as met- grace. has $100,000,000 benefit. present bill, owing place, ab- siuco the on 1 1 is dispo- This period. us nations is is the solution Tho balance of of those it nations, EAstern much as metals. spirit same public Bigger and it is in this metals. historical Pliny, gold was, in Ito the East. In made for the see or seventeen to the ultimate tlio remoto to annu- prinoes, discover we as precious hide this avari- to of tlio uninterruptedly most waters, etc., could be readily in the ears to The drill frame is upright the for operate t<> inches. The are preserved endless collection? of .sum- view a can equidistant, Long’s Peak, mineral ami which wall miles. Peak, to-wit: minerals, which mass the incidents comprehends and extent. abruptly rise clear a vision grandeur in great a on observer the mountains Editor Miner: of Moroeo precious subjects, that problem sorption, been ing that their predilection of the silver filled with the surprising not <>l opin- can his range of the like of tho complete analysis, a A Visit his But tins follows, at Denver day, surpassed increases in which the among it us of in W. Foster, LL. J. There But who shall distil histories, “Standing in offices. assay, of all ores, as fashion a ' 1 1 hoarding, cious mania that he has shared the the desire up two one is newspapers was the frame of picture National library, and, one or and descrip- mind a a is to so as sharp a tho enlargements; on stroke tho lower of all soldiers to their families at ant Eat- Chicago Academy President of the mer's Leg- bill Is better as that one patriotic a the Add to these private such of the rebellion. years in the Boston. thrilling apparatus lowered, to strike valve, push down of the shell. among to the run and up-stroko, On the the and allow them personal Cities,” faithful raised the bits a iron in connection with which the dropping mechanism the appara- merely the drilled hole. the rock. them It inspired day. aud us a sides, be sciences. receive metallurgical products, coal, haps, con- recipients, prosent Emperor as so being to productions mere nation W0.000,000 and the reported metal uiuong far so of assay of the put the is mechanism, together there the when thrust from as valve loosely in engine by on careful review a an dropping screwed are and allow in describ- from up Exactly life think, I dent of Colorado. Col. rods Revolu- as upward The fits the cause individual accuracy collections of digest I>.H .M. interesting an by written into Territory inan- returns one, in summed Chinese and Persians. tho former Tills de- however French economist says, in away is in last number much cent precious never all to D. strange not the hands ofthe and West per used acquired and alike Egyptians, ion, five country. supply, As the first lod little should tlon contains Above tranquil productions, of Two give to from this number of the American lowered. throw enlargements the resistance of the water disk which of the the valve receives most remarkable from grotesque most thousands to fortune. tide, our Mountains uralist 150 for Japan, the demand nations. seems ut The present assay tions of the is per The Orientals in it industry attention A series Europe ; fifty tlioir that mineral wealth of the several mining fifteen where, after the but little while worth county. day is, however, dawning'on and the now In univer- Gilpin county mining this noble the In fearful amount better when Then, too, Territory, the best but generally about mines they as almost failures. extensive)}* High ties. yield long and claims, made host hands, companies, proved sally with private a as Hero absorbed and over a parts these nations have parties the mines not fail to did veins returns fully The Tlio last sible. to India. Western county, Phillips, Orphan Boy, and to four-fifths of tlio remainder is end. settlement, its well gold but Cuba, Europe, for' of Colora- Territory als, nine fifteen this shall been, has briefly manufacture; to Creek (through Inboundin shallows and In miseries.’ taking aud both tide in the uAitlrs ol men. on pro- connected are small, rods, hv off from way be- and “French made was no given flashes of its for as ference. lends gods wings tus is have to interval. have man’s for its journals several all thevoyage of their lifV Yours for mining popu 1ation of theTerritory. What the Territorial offices should bo, may bo He says to a seem make tragle of the one strange the inner us: tukon at the flood, Omitted, interest alone does not meet the demands seized recently, cent per Which, to 1793, his creations. thus giant vol- rebe’l- the can impartiality some of Clear to there Carlyle's required ex- let every railroad our iron-throated relief “There Is annu- for writers prejudice and judicial fore the it. time, since than Dickens’ “Tale desire for tho get to child, and until the shriek out the most prom- Territory Offices for the Indies; leaving Brazil, to mining that metals, necessarily be, and when It Is remembered tho thir- only Cuba; to line) their onco shell und which ears, valve alternately of the the and The a Pas- investigation “try an states* into the numberless and of that ing events, entering or combination, ability hurrah If glance of with steam character mo- not raised. and wonderful the R. as to them. object think veteran I only false true of that or of time by giving and all tho woman county, sections making of for the consider we than the Polytechnic goes circulation in civilized have generally the is sume That this to at an vast, extent rather same sum- was inquiry. Here tho transit of the in lode county. | j lacturing, vor greater of five man, section remaining The silver and other islature. Gees of the to Meantime, restrictions, information nt road and their names their adver- tion” of county fail, why tho bonds, on new demonstrate any public. greater natural ques- u large percentage a such some either in often a as of the Perhaps reflection. resolutely “organize not tension of time sever- and anew, the Governor of the Territo- to that such these gold of It is cent way to ducting gold County has heretofore Ascribed remunerative A SURGEON, Indies and finds its sition of were of Summit of Park Summit of lized lode AMD ALPIMB SIS, rN-nbt-tf dilo- werked, unremunerative in Park cerning I. J. POLLOK, OFPICK in case older and ment of pyritous PHYSICIAN & number were cent lor of provide must do; to share was becomes Of that which goes and the rich free a pet California Reproductive, mines the In gold per cent at the made, certain inent business of the valuable. In more before Brazil; record, Why into for the for arrangement does victory” well as worse uguin.” and for assay provides VI mineral wealth of the hope weight Dr. Stephens, per twenty-live I mining small It. H. Morrison HUGHES until placer experience The that ATTORNEYS county, thirtv-fivo but in could, lodes found. are now such will be sold first door north of the Girard House. Hr la M. ilooHK*. exist, worked. ATTORNEY. Office, such discovered several and well and due gold is incited down for cent to dollars gold, and every under owners. reports gold, comi- gold product, fully annual our largo lodes have ty- KM, Proprietor*. COUNSELOR Lake which that univery a has been done will be of per ally, immediate!} extensive no capital of the be to A paper rend Association, by both wit; to al When In the time of Pla- wars. first Gilpin of question both a them R. Co.—all the charg- to he is three silver of all assays furnishing and to our Gold quantities in his for Section permits, to the better field valuable, ask—-“what to A this'coun- over him by tion price the assay, which it is cylindrical a tubular a drill-shank The w-itli projecting, wiugs, which rest drill is on enlargements while .the being be sion a on of Europe, during philosophy Cen- aim but frame 45. with their favorites and devils of suicidal. as of time If the citizens see that be its regard but can for of lleginter of the question a throws, whatever may and money—to Sec- this saries. in by Gilpin suffered other no the struek the future over argument we not cannot assayed; In* to ry, und for other matters of little ro-peo- valuable, owing, perhaps, more enormous common remunera- gold no heads not where probably of JOHN 0. yet the is prospecting rected conducting Street, Georgetown. highly regarding concluded that the lodes do not rather (about have been almost aroa, at It the specimens the Is ney.” Assayers of the the certificate concerns of a proper olllces, of the act very coming Darius, of more as assay keeping The Lake no the twelve timos was limes demonstrate and extended found class Taos Brecken- creek to it lodes Breckenridge). investigation, placers formly rich, ENGINEER. Building. gold Summit county, become demands past of the Blue of Mile of the silver ores, await but to gulches. free done to Another fact been Hill, south Ten lodes of labor galena Nigger rich west boon and after the HOUSE, GIRARD has '66, and during the head on for valuable on and very on miles gold of done 1865 years miles and fifteen Enough employ- comparatively been discovered (eight rldge), not COUNTY, the discovered were but little furnished have and has the on ac open- steady a thoir the China and the or in Summit. remunerative number a were lodes, Dep. U. S. Mineral Surveyor river, placers Breckcnridge, near Gulch, ALBERT JOHNSON, districts that than silver. cent to obtained, also, done citizens, During lodes. ty been and considerable BERRY,* W. House parts mining and her while the LINE States from hostile Indians prospecting tive. FOB ANCHOR lim- certain mining weight, “It the certificates. duty the dollars for mine do of the mineral during reign In tho teen times of the assay other metal. made. calculated to meet this in Colorado sure and to be has gulches and NOTARY PUBLIC k CONVEYANGER, THE more head waters of the Snake of H. C. HARRINGTON, of, from well directed in- of tho other Outside of the summer Territorial much any de- our own morally three and silver?” malarious diseases. little of Pharmacy. to when it is returns, are in Hor thR city dreg store, WHIG dustry than means, the prospectors our ev- and to contino the opera- without any risk Staple and Fancy Croceries, B. S. of the true the unbounded wealth its, especially that of every will be therefore we that of Julius Ctesar com- stimulate, by honorable of and Territories, DICKERSON, UKAI.KK IN Corner Rose and Burrell the desire Territory; this yet as the miners and districts. of the older citizen of Colorado to (Iwikm«tow». been mentioned, is by whMe each the silver erected. Park and receive Where of the animus, direct to be used in The subject, the III of the and Assayers, seal, of a regu'ates mlicit so for mer. stimula- that and attention Men and be recommended onu will II Sections approval for the several ed for each bullion, probably we satisfied are stamping VII the made—and and of will he what operation of of min- Territory. of tho unknown we counties great some evident that their minoral wealth BERRY,! UKAI.KRS IN ties, miners ofSummit, prospectors, obser- tlio silver made ih the counties above TRAPP our investigation and resources equally also many all county has Creek tho mineral more to allairs which has attended success of BEMENT, Office to first, at provides providing the al Soon the lodes camps shipment Knowing wealth Park and Lake of interest prove evident very of vers ted tho W. Summit, by hardy small embraced with- the limits of ing pled gold mills mining com- through counties. scan several constant sec- of It is (Counsrllor at -rate, UEOR6ETOWX. that readers. SHEPARD, anl in near of tramping be and sister thoir ended. will assays will lie deserted is now season share of the best pros- handling carefully will tha now Colorado to ed—many of tion west Engine House, Georgetown. L. H. attornr® of MOUNTAIN VIEWS. DECATUR. Utah or counties have not of many our Assayers. and, also, regulates prospec- our greater a mountains of customed good- FIELD. concerning few items a in the gulches probably NEW the prospecting at hand hand andfor Hale, a variety Joining say we these isolation is pectors over STEPHEN Builder, Georgetown. PHOTOGRAPHER, on the to evident, however, feet and IV bond of the in public attention. ores As Has Press; iho mill men, why received busy Section tral. six hundred dollars per year said accompany mentioned abovo that Arizona and also tho grati- and of Ihe mountains; and the whole community, LOVE, Groceries and ROCKY kindness bye. BOYER. MPBrAXCE A of members miners on the Bakers, Georgetown. HENBY feelings is offer any attractions para Live of tion V is as upon the varied riches counties wonder wliyit It is and shadow videil generally life, I of Many qf their [ BENDLE, Groceries and MONTI A VAI'XELLA, endu- ami to each eclipse, sudden a 1'hrouiclr.. novel is j With A solid as the mountains themselves. as county. Park appropriates were in some born ion. . bring prosperity gold of ore such the above named lodes. can heretofore Fairplay, Boulder county; been county —railroad-wise time, to drill the shaft. swiveled in j will ring of the mines or many who how much pan a tors great sig- of development of the three Boulder, had of umes ex- and now \ j Georgetown. lining silver a The would astonish reflect we Aiuizette Pilot in Cali- or with the county; The City, Clear Creek used rod, save real dates." sensible remark man, the Bob Tail tunnel. Assayers, Central at Georgetown, and stamps, and names of | GoodsandClothing, WARE. Clothing, Georgetown. 41 LAZE. has nificance. Gulch, of Granite, in Boy, bo obtained in can wo of lodes unacquainted are mining Jane, Hattie the Printer j Dry Colorado, from northerly statement respectively, Gilpin county; thatjlaylight —we good a j Central. A MPABtit’E, industry the Yankee Blade or When on over-estimating. mining from settled within 30 most detailed furnished by heavy a commentary and The future of the Founders, LAKE A enthusiasm our is county, ns) (to reside, to Iho music of false, is picture pages fissure | I>ealers, Georgetown. this her A fornia of startling of of a by news the truthful in , CBEE, Tobacconists and News in be- resources blockade, oar satisfactory and HEXDBIB 880N. MTHOCMNR proportions, mineral wor.d mlies camp. is and a it for the latter. vote history and dates,while iu to strike true peilgrinations, our cheered 1 Trenaurer, Georgetown. An correctness the ores and deserves “great ! J. O. Stewart, A lieves in the vast Colorado. FlBHAft; THE AIEY WOOD Slulile, (ieorgetuwn. To-day, The easily are abundant, of four Territorial ora We give our tended re- r for streak W. rORXKT. Wu.«liiiiitluii Sunday ilir “Most and mote so To Black Hawk— semper idem bf uiiinlercsiiiig. provides taste, And Herald, of the pay | | J.ivery vindicated the does. appointment rich vein.” con- brief a good With make his mark to world. . From this • -NOXT. has lodes fuel is fanning population “runs” Colorado. Suhsequentde- of our opinions. now her ! A the well as she by I HAILEY vclopiuent county that furnished cheaply worked, enthu- sn counties mitifng the a Assayers two years, and I.ofthebrfl, Section of the regulate ought he pen mounted in the /let/inter office. journalistic Frank, liberal Territorial view of it may not 1 1 Musi.- Dealers, Chicago. of coming for tho graz- public. not n« people the will duct of the several occupy the subthe counties, mountain pla- extensive unbounded long cAiinot position ordinate fact, of in over-estimating of this resources the whole of as HA CRM A CO., We were called and accused of min- lands, , 1 by desired ! New York. Ike under a cloud was rich ranches and ing rich and varied gold lodes, resoureesof free bos- bo \ siast, mineral CO.. Uroadway. 3(3 com- the might as MEN PUBLIC OF IIY CO I.. J. our be. 1 Corner Itlake ami F streets, Denver. BI'BBBB CLOTH IXU darkness. thick BAKU, XATIBXAL we county, and, of this whole Territory, the mountains,and in for the bhoetlt of the passed, although The bill : olliee will soon 1 Hanker, Georgetown. of of the cers, When menced to write for this pitper, ing industry C'I’NMMAW. Miner. nestling scone- 1 A*\. Georgetown. editorial management old lakes opened be min- a the find to Mr. Ambrose, scholarship, tine sharp Fair- 1 Provision-. l.iquurx, the Colorado love for maitiiitlcent his duties, at tripod the on ANECDOTES Mr. Low connects greatly gratified were smiling friend, be- we t<sated county, which Park are, their several Assayer the ' the her grand oiu play, 1872, act approved and Rev. lead. to Wo 1 Denver. compels me first our fulfilling now of the Colorado, eighth, the excepting when of thirty-two members, rie ap- 1 resign to Street. Lurimer R. FBBAM, duties, of official county, ing county, with ry, ilieve, of many profit a OFFICE, Assayers, $he provisions under legislature jFebruary a ! receive to very pay to I in tlioad- poiuled of the ASSAY Territorial 1 BEBVKB ■AVI.VUW HAMM. nature, the fail and >I several 1 discharge and cannot found 1 1 sublr, Georgetown. private a lodes av- The ' Business of be found than more TERRITORIAL worked. i Ltvery WILLIAM. M. gulches Lake GOOD-BYE CLABK. gold ores Mts. on ores are and of examination, them will properly Abnlract ofllc**, Georgetown and Centrul. CAIPBILL A J. Proprietor. CKEE, silver N UMBER 1 I ALEX. which the richness, orage jacent now lieirgrtown. rABBKLKE, MIB A FIMNT Year. Pkr «~ 4> lieHler in lirikTriiH, t. $4 the limestone 1 Subscription, from the good quantities I I'BEB,r. I Furniture, UeorK«*iowii. Xx-al. rin in Lincoln, i and in THURSDAY. MMXE. T*H. found Hross ! EVERY PUBLISHED lately 1 Ovurgeiown. Ins of the returns ' Wbutautle and Kt-tuii Grocer*, Hfinn, ! Wttfclg ' Addertisers. TI'CHRB, * A. r. ' r. i Our i. MINER. GEORGETOWN, COLORADO, THURSDAY, MARCH 28, 1872. | VOLUME COLORADO * /pvr- � https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/58ba4ce5db7b920ce1345c4e8f5d2b33.jpg 8db0264db0f0fd3a9fdd6de7f797cef3 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Mountains of Colorado Subject The topic of the resource Bison; Landscapes; Mountains; Newspaper archives; Sheep; Indians of North America Description An account of the resource 1872 Colorado Miner (Weekly) newspaper clipping with description of mountain region wildlife and Ute tribe. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Foster, J.W. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Newspaper clippings; Digital Libraries Ranching Research; Newspaper files; no.001 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Colorado Miner (Weekly) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1872-03-28 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Decatur, Stephen (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archives; Colorado Historic Newspaper Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text/PDF; image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NP00118720328 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Park (county); Rocky Mountains (mountain range) IIIF Item Metadata UUID 5fb35333-befd-4724-a3b9-a7b4f868596d https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/6c66b13770e2520919cea58a7507cbfe.pdf 2ad89e5cad01bf675a0c9fac010ee162 PDF Text Text � https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/efd7c522263e05f31f515336dfa2cfdd.jpg ce5e85a491e5370a47a85b3278464efe Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sam Hartsel newspaper article, April 10, 1908 Subject The topic of the resource Ranch life; Ranchers; Ranches--Colorado; Newspaper archives; Cattle Description An account of the resource Fairplay Flume newspaper article about Sam Hartsel selling cattle as he prepares for retirement. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Newspaper clippings; Digital Libraries Ranching Research; Newspaper files; no.003 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Fairplay Flume Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1908-04-10 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archives; Colorado Historic Newspaper Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text/PDF; image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NP00319080410 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Denver (inhabited space) IIIF Item Metadata UUID 94c4c3f6-5eb1-47a1-99e7-c4311cc6945a https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/e1ca3699858205459ebc0687025b6574.pdf b56b47ad899d0e35c1929edd9601e735 PDF Text Text � https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/345ab86658634257547f23ce98121530.jpg 050f4b628171f5f6b4d49322f80666db Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fairplay Flume, June 11, 1909 Subject The topic of the resource Newspaper archives; Families--History; Women in rural development; Ranches--Colorado Description An account of the resource Newspaper obituary for Marie Guiraud in 1909. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Newspaper clippings; Digital Libraries Ranching Research; Newspaper files; no.005 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Fairplay Flume Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909-06-11 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archives; Colorado Historic Newspaper Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text/PDF; image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NP00519090611 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state) IIIF Item Metadata UUID 51fe5fe9-4526-4939-b2f9-af31bd48607c https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/1df390ce206a024d98f05e914919e2c8.jpg f8f78605f73a411fbf81d73cf7c3b6d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Photographic Collection IIIF Collection Metadata UUID d2406b8f-4266-4f5f-9a61-9180a6a8630d Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Photograph of Salt Works Ranch, late 1800s Subject The topic of the resource Ranch life; Ranchers; Ranches--Colorado Description An account of the resource Two people standing in front of buildings. Salt Works. 1870s or 1880s. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Black-and-white-photographs; Park County Local History Archive Photographic Collection. Salt Works folder; no. 1575 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1870-1880 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archives Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ph001575 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Photographic Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 31f95f31-cade-4b5e-800d-dde2e0d68d69 ranch ranch buildings rancher settlers