https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/d5c11e2f9f30d512eb706d5d8f468e57.mp3 bdd6f897528d4222d492fd9d109ad393 https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/ade8c4dab2b46405e5cf9ea53c915f17.mp3 b558a26289258b7780247c3689b3698a https://pclha.cvlcollections.org/files/original/8505b37233e917a1244fd47595621325.pdf 12bdb456f8ef284d842ce852540127ca PDF Text Text INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY APRIL 14, 1979 GUFFEY, COLORADO im 6 u -f -fe y, d e l a r i i o �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL APRIL 14, 1979 INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY TAPE I, SIDE I MS. K: THIS IS LORI KENNEDY. IS 1:00 P.M. A" THE DATE IS APRIL 14, 1979. THE TIME I AM INTERVIEWING CHARLIE DELL AT HIS HOME IN GUFFEY, COLORADO. CHARLIE, HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN GUFFEY? MR. D: ALL MY LIFE. MS. K: YOU WERE BORN HERE? MR. D: YEAH, YES. MS. K: WHO WAS THE FIRST OF YOUR RELATIVES TO COME TO GUFFEY? MR. D: WELL, MY GRANDFATHER CAME INTO THIS COUNTRY- MY GRANDFATHER DELL- HE WAS HERE IN 1861. - YEAH, HE CAME HERE IN 1861, THAT'S MY GRANDFATHER DELL, THAT'S MY DAD'S FATHER AND MY MOTHER'S THEY, ER, MY GREAT GRANDFATHER, IN OTHER WORDS, DOUGLAS, ON MOTHER'S SIDE, CAME- HE WAS DOWN AROUND BENT'S FORT, COLORADO, DOWN IN NEAR PUEBLO, WAY DOWN IN THAT COUNTRY. HE WAS AN OLD SCOUT, HE’D GO BACK TO KANSAS AND COME INTO COLORADO. AS FAR BACK AS WE COULD CHECK HIM. FAMILY, CLEAR BACK TO RHODE ISLAND. A WAS BORN IN RHODE ISLAND IN 1810. THAT'S WE CHECKED THE DELL MY GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER MS. K: WHAT BROUGHT THEM OUT TO GUFFEY, BOTH SETS OF GRANDPARENTS? MR. D: WELL, MY MOTHER'S DAD AND GRANDFATHER, THEY COME IN HERE, THEY WERE OLD SCOUTS, JUST SCOUTS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY WAS OLD SCOUTS. MS. K: WERE THEY MARRIED WHEN THEY CAME? MR. D: NO, THEY WEREN'T. THEY FINALLY WENT BACK TO KANSAS AND GOT THEM WIVES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. MS. K: AND THEN THEIR WIVES CAME WITH THEM? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWO MR. D: YEAH, AND THEN THEIR WIVES CAME WITH THEM. GRANDFATHER DELL, HE JUST TORE OUT ON ACCOUNT OF THE WAR. HE WASN'T GOING TO BE A WARRIOR. [LAUGHS] HE JUST GOT OUT OF THAT CIVIL WAR: HE COME IN HERE. I DON’T KNOW HOW HIS FAMILY GOT HERE. ANYHOW, THEY SHOWED UP FINALLY. MS. K: THEY DIDN'T COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME? MR. D: OH NO, HE HAD TO GET OUT QUICK. YOU KNOW, THEY WAS OUT HUNTING MEN, [LAUGHjf/sO HE HAD TO GET OUT QUICK. MS. K: DO YOU KNOW HOW YOUR GRANDMOTHER FELT ABOUT THAT? MR. D: UMM, GOD, I DON'T KNOW. ALL RIGHT." MAN. SHE PROBABLY THOUGHT, WELL..."IT'S HE JUST DIDN'T WANNA FIGHT. HE DIDN'T LIKE TO WAR. HE WASN'T A WARRING AS FAR AS MOTHER'S PARENTS AND GRANDDAD, THEY CAME HERE WHEN COLORADO WAS NOT EVEN A TERRITORY, AS FAR AS THAT GOES. MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOUR GRANDMOTHERS ON BOTH SIDES LIKED LIVING HERE? DO YOU REMEMBER THEM AT ALL? MR. D: OH YES, I REMEMBER MY GRANDMOTHER. MS. K: WHICH ONE? MR. D: BOTH OF THEM. MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT THEM? MR. D: YEAH, THEY CLAIM THAT GRANDMOTHER DELL CLAIMED THAT HER ANCES­ TORS CAME FROM SCOTLAND. YES. AND SHE WAS A GREAT MUSICIAN. SHE WAS VERY, VERY TALENTED. AND 'COURSE GRANDFATHER DELL, HE WAS RELIGIOUS, AND HE DIDN’T BELIEVE IN DANCING, SO THEY DIDN'T GET ALONG TOO GOOD ON THAT KIND OF THING. [l AUGHSJ �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE THREE MS. K: DID THEY BOTH LIVE THE REST OF THEIR LIVES HERE? MR. D: YEAH, THEY LIVED ALL OF THEIR LIVES HERE. HERE...AND IN 1918, ONE DIED IN 1918. THEY DIED RIGHT THE FLU, THAT GOT HER. THE OTHER ONE DIED IN 1920, 1921, ALONG IN THERE. MS. K: HOW OLD WERE THEY WHEN THEY DIED? MR. D: OH, OLD, OLD, OLD PEOPLE, THEY LIVED TO BE OLD. BY GOD, THEY LIVED TO BE OLD. MS. K: DID YOU EVER TALK TO THEM MUCH, YOUR GRANDPARENTS? DID THEY LIVE VERY CLOSE TO YOU? MR. D: OH MY GRANDMOTHER- MY MOTHER'S, OH THEY WERE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. I COULDN'T GET ALONG WITH GRANDMOTHER DELL AT ALL. DIDN'T, HER AND I NEVER HITCHED. EVERY TIME I'D TURN AROUND. SHE JUST OH, AND SHE'D JUST FRAIL ME ^LAUGHS] SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE I'D EVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING. (LAUGHS^ JUST FRAIL THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME. I’ DON'T KNOW WHY, SHE JUST DIDN'T LIKE ME, I GUESS. MS. K DO YOU THINK THEY EVER GOT LONELY? MR. D OH NO, THEY WEREN'T. MS. K WAS IT VERY POPULATED OUT HERE THEN? MR. D NOT TOO, NOT TOO POPULATED. MS. K HOW DID THEY SPEND THEIR DAYS? MR. D BY GOD, THEY WORKED HARD, THEY WORKED HARD. MS. K WHAT KINDS OF THINGS DID THEY DO? MR. D WASHED CLOTHES. THEY WERE ALWAYS AROUND SOMEBODY. AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE NO WASHING MACHINES. THEY HAD TO DO HER THE OLD STYLE WAY. SOAP, AND THEY HAD TO BAKE BREAD. AND THEY HAD TO MAKE THEY HAD TO COOK. TO KEEP THE HOUSE, AND THEY JUST DONE LOTS OF WORK. HAD TO PACK WATER FROM THE SPRING AND ALL THAT STUFF. THEY HAD AND THEY �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE FOUR MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO FOR ENTERTAINMENT, ANYTHING? MR. D: OH,THEY’D HAVE DANCES HERE. SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE DANCES. SOMEONE IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, WOULD ALWAYS. RANCHMAN WOULD THROW A...HAVE A GOOD DANCE. SOME EVERYBODY WOULD COME. MS. K: WHEN YOUR MOTHER WAS BORN, SHE WAS BORN RIGHT HERE. MR. D: [n o d s ] MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT HER? MR. D: YES. OH MOTHER, SHE WAS VERY MUCH OF A MUSICIAN. SHE WAS A MUSICIAN, TOO, A PIE-ANO PLAYER, A DANCER, AND ALL THAT STUFF. VERY TALENTED IN ALL THAT. MS. K: WHERE DID SHE LEARN HOW TO PLAY THAT? MR. D: OH, I SUPPOSE THEY HAD TEACHERS, YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY DO. HAD MUSIC TEACHERS SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE. TO PLAY; ALL OF THEM WAS MUSICIANS. YEAH, THEY LEARNED THE WHOLE FAMILY WAS MUSICIANS AND COULD PLAY SOMETHING. MS. K WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SHE DID? MR. D OH, JUST RAISE THE FAMILY. MS. K HOW MANY CHILDREN DID SHE HAVE? MR. D SIX MS. K DID SHE HAVE ANY HELP WHEN SHE HAD THEM? MR. D YEAH, THEM MIDWIVES. THEY DIDN’T HAVE NO DOCTORS, JUST THOSE MIDWIVES. [LAUGHS] MS. K: AND YOU WERE JUST BORN OUT HERE? MR. D: YEAH...AND NONE EVER DIED. {LAUGHS^ WOULD'VE HAD TO GO TO THE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE FIVE MR. D: (CONTINUED) HOSPITAL AND ALL THAT, AND IT WOULD HAVE COST SOME MONEY. IN THEM TIMES, IT DIDN'T COST MUCH. JUST HAVE THOSE MIDWIVES, AND THEY WAS JUST ABOUT AS GOOD AS A DOCTOR, I GUESS, NOWADAYS. MS. K: WHAT KINDS OF THINGS DID SHE DO? HAVE OF HER? MR. D: WHAT KINDS OF MEMORIES DO YOU DID SHE GET LONELY? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T THINK THEY HAD TIME TO GET TOO LONELY BECAUSE THEY WORKED ALL THE TIME. THEY WORKED HARD. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. MS. K: HOW CLOSE WERE YOUR CLOSEST NEIGHBORS? MR. D: OH, WE FINALLY MOVED UPTOWN. YOU SEE WE HAD A RANCH, AND THEN WE FINALLY SOLD THE RANCH AND MOVED UPTOWN HERE, AND THEN WE HAD NEIGHBORS. MOTHER HAD NEIGHBORS RIGHT HERE IN TOWN. YOU KNOW, SHE LIVED IN TOWN HERE. MS. K: WELL, I'VE HEARD YOU MENTION SOME OF THE OTHER LADIES THAT LIVED AROUND IN GUFFEY OR AROUND MAYBE IN HARTSEL. MR. D: UMM HMM. OH, THERE WAS ALOT OF THEM [l AUGHs ] GALS. M S . K :' CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT SOME IN PARTICULAR? MR. D: OH, THEY CAME IN HERE AND TOOK UP LAND. ALLOWED. YOU KNOW THEY WAS IF THEY WEREN'T MARRIED, THEY COULD TAKE UP A FULL SECTION OF LAND WHICH WAS SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY ACRES. MS. K: BUT ONLY IF THEY WEREN'T MARRIED. MR. D: YES, IF THEY WERE MARRIED THEY COULDN'T DO IT. COULD, BUT THE WOMAN COULDN'T. THEIR HUSBAND HELL, A LOT OF THEM OLD GALS COME IN HERE AND TOOK UP SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY ACRES. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE SIX MS. K: THERE WERE QUITE A FEW OF THEM? MR. D: YEAH, LOTS OF WOMEN COME IN AND TOOK UP LAND, AND THEY'D LIVE ON IT F^O THREE YEARS AND PROVE UP ON IT AND SELL IT FOR A THOUSAND DOLLARS A SECTION. BRING A THOUSAND DOLLARS; THEY'D DO ALL RIGHT. MS. K: THEN WHAT WOULD THEY DO AFTER THEY SOLD IT? MR. D: AH, THEY'D MOVE BACK TOWN OR SOMEWHERES YOU KNOW. THERE WAS A LINE OF THEM, SCHOOL TEACHERS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL. MS. K: HOW DID THEY MAKE THEIR LIVING DURING THAT TIME? MR. D: OH, THEY'D FARM. YOU COULD RAISE SPUDS AND POTATOES AND HAY [o pi.] j nn' ALL RIGHT. AT THAT TIME, WE HAD SOME GOOD YEARS, AND THEY COULD JUST PLOW UP SOME LAND, AND THEY COULD RAISE POTATOES. MS. K: SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO USE THE WHOLE SECTION OF LAND, DID THEY? MR. D: OH NO, NO. THEY COULD PLOW THEM UP TWENTY ACRES OF SPUDS AND TWENTY ACRES OF HAY AND ALL THAT. MS. K: DID THEY DO THIS BY THEMSELVES? MR. D: YEAH__ LOT OF THEM WOULD. HAVE MILK COWS, CHICKENS. AND THEN SOME OF THEM WOULD HIRE A FELLOW, HIRE A GUY TO COME AND WORK FOR THEM, YOU KNOW... ACCORDING TO THEIR LOOKS. IF THEY WERE REAL GOOD LOOKING, THEY NEVER HAD TO HIRE THEM ANY MEN, ^LAUGHTER) YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. OH, OLD SIX-SHOOTER ANNIE, SHE HAD A PLACE OVER HERE. TOOK UP A SECTION OVER ON THREE-MILE. YEARS OLD WHEN I KNEW HER. AND WE WENT BY THERE WITH A LOAD OF POTATOES WITH A TEAM AND WAGON. HORSES. SHE WAS ABOUT THIRTY WE STOPPED TO WATER OUR IT'S ABOUT HALF WAY TO HARTSEL. AND WE STOPPED, AND �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE SEVEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) SHE HAD INVITED US IN, AND WE, I AND MY DAD, AND WE HAD DINNER AND LUNCH IN HER HOUSE, AND COFFEE AND LET OUR TEAM EAT AND FINALLY WENT ON TO HARTSEL. HOMESTEADED. THEY CLAIM SHE AND BUILT HER LOG CABIN, AND I GUESS SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW AND GOT THE DAMN ROOF ON, AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW- YOU KNOW YOU GOT TO HAVE A CERTAIN KIND OF SAW TO CUT A ROUND CIRCLE WITH TO PUT THE STOVE PIPE THROUGH- AND THEY SAID SHE DIDN'T HAVE NO SAW, SO SHE DRAWED A CIRCLE WHERE SHE WANTED HER STOVEPIPE AND TOOK HER SIX-SHOOTER AND SHOT BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, YOU KNOW, AND ROUND AND KNOCKED IT OUT OF THERE. AND BY GOD, I BELIEVE IT, BECAUSE I HAD THE PIECE OF WOOD! I HAD IT AROUND HERE FOR A LONG TIME. THEY ALWAYS HAD PLENTY OF GUNS, YOU KNOW, AND AMMUNITION. THAT'S ONE THING YOU ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE PLENTY OF IS GUNS AND AMMUNITION. MS. K: WAS IT PRETTY COMMON TO SEE A WOMAN CARRYING A GUN? MR. D: OH, THEY CARRIED GUNS. SHE CARRIED A GUN. YOU BET THEY DID! YEAH, BEULAH BEELER, SHE PACKED A BIG OLD FORTY-FIVE ON HER. BY GOD SHE WAS, SHE TAKE CARE OF HERSELF ALL RIGHT. MS. K: DID THEY HAVE TO USE THEM VERY OFTEN? MR. D: OH NO, BUT IN CASE. THEY COULD PACK A GUN SEEM TO MIND PACKING GUNS. COULD SEE IT. MS. K: THEN. THEYDIDN'T PACK IT OUT RIGHT WHERE EVERYBODY IT'S ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID THE MEN THINK OF THESE WOMEN THAT CAME IN THAT WERE SINGLE AND TOOK A SECTION OF LAND? THEY KIND OF LEAVE THEM ALONE? DID THEY ADMIRE THEM OR DID �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE EIGHT MR. D: OH;THEY ADMIRED THEM, YES. TAKE THAT LAND. THEY HAD A RIGHT TO, YOU KNOW, AND AND MAYBE THEIR HUSBAND DIED AND MAYBE GOT KILLED IN THE WAR. YOU KNOW, THAT WORLD WAR ONE, HE MIGHT OF GOT KILLED IN WORLD WAR ONE, AND THEY GOT TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, SO THEY'D COME IN HERE AND TAKE THEM UP A SECTION OF LAND, PROVE UP ON IT, SELL THEIR LAND. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THEY DIDN'T JUST STAY BACK EAST WHERE IT WAS A LOT EASIER TO LIVE? MR. D: WELL, THEY WANTED TO GET OUT. MS. K : WHY? MR. D: I GUESS JUST TO GET OUT. NOW. LIKE, WELL, THEY DO NOW. WOMEN'DO THEY WAS TWO GIRLS FROM COLORADO SPRINGS OR MANITOU, AND GOD, THEY COME UP HERE ONE TIME AND LIVED IN A TEEPEE ALL WINTER. [ AUGHs ] BY GOD, THAT WAS A COLD SON OF A GUN. l MS. K: DO YOU THINK JUST TO SEE IF THEY COULD DO IT? MR. D: I SUPPOSE, JUST TO SEE IF THEY COULD DO IT. MS. K: DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE REASON THEY CAME BACK THEN BY THEMSELVES MR. D: YES, AND THEY MIGHT GET TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS F^pTHEIR DAMN SECTION, ACCORDING TO WHERE IT WAS AT. MS. K: MR. IT WAS MOSTLY FOR THE MONEY THEN? D: YOU'RE DANGED RIGHT. THEY'D MAKE A LITTLE MONEY. A LOT OF THEM LOST THEIR HUSBANDS AND SOME OF THEM GOT MARRIED, TOO. HERE 'COURSE IT WAS SHORT ON WOMEN ALWAYS,(LAUGHS^AND A LOT OF THEM WOMEN WENT OUT HERE IN SHUMWAY PARK. SHE TOOK UP A SECTION OF LAND, AND BY GOD, A SOLDIER COME ALONG AND TOOK UP ANOTHER SEC­ TION RIGHT BESIDE HER, AND BY GOD, THEY GOT MARRIED. AND HE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE NINE MR. D: (CONTINUED) WAS A DESIGN PAINTER BY TRADE, AND SHE WAS A SCHOOLTEACHER, SO THEY PROVED UP ON THEIR LAND AND AWAY THEY WENT, SOLD IT AND WENT BACK TO TOWN. MS. K: DID SHE HAVE TO GIVE UP HER SECTION OF LAND WHEN SHE GOT MARRIED MR. D: NO, NO, SHE FILED ON IT WHEN SHE WAS STILL SINGLE AND SHE STILL COULD OWN IT. THEY SOLD OUT, THEY GOT HITCHED AND TOOK OUT AND WENT TO BOULDER, BOULDER DAM, HOOVER DAM, OUT IN NEVADA. THAT'S WHERE THEY WENT TO. GUESS. (5 J THEY WENT OUT THERE AND HAD A FAMILY, I RAISED A FAMILY. AND THEN THERE WAS THREE GIRLS RIGHT UP ABOVE GUFFEY TOOK UP A, ONE TOOK UP A SECTION, AND THE OTHERS JUST LIVED THERE WITH HER. THE OTHER TWO, THEIR NAMES WAS YONKONS, THE YONKONS I THINK WAS THEIR NAMES. VERY WELLj THEY TOOK UP LAND. TWENTY-ONE5 I REMEMBER THEM 'COURSE THE OLDER ONE, SHE WAS SHE JUST TOOK UP LAND. I THINK THE OLD BUILDING IS STILL UP THERE THAT THEY USED TO PROVE UP. THEY PROVED UP ON IT AND SOLD THE DAMN THING AND TOOK OFF. MS. K: WERE THERE ANY OTHER SINGLE WOMEN THAT CAME OUT WHO MAYBE HAD BUSINESSES OR ANY OTHER REASONS FOR COMING OUT AND TAKING UP A SECTION OF LAND? MR. D: WELL NO. TEACHERS. THERE WAS SCHOOL TEACHERS. THEY'D ALWAYS GET SCHOOL HAD TO HAVE SCHOOL TEACHERS HERE, AND THEY'D HIRE THEM, AND SOME OF THEM WOULD LIKE THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, AND TAKE UP LAND....THEN WE HAD ONE COME IN HERE, AND HER HUSBAND BOUGHT A STORE. THE STORE. BOUGHT THE STORE UP HERE AT GUFFEY. HE WAS AN OLD SICKLY GUY; HE HAD ASTHMA. STARTED HE DIDN'T LAST VERY LONG, AND BY GOD, HE'DIED, SO SHE GOT THE STORE. SHE �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) WAS A YOUNGER WOMAN. DIED, AND SHE RUN THE STORE. SONS AND A DAUGHTER. PUT THEM IN THE NAVY. SHE WASN'T TOO OLD, AND HE SHE HAD A DUAGHTER. SHE HAD TWO THE MINUTE HER SONS GOT OLD ENOUGH, SHE AND THEN SHE'D RUN THE STORE. SHE SURE, SHE WAS A RASCAL,BY GOD. AND GOD, YOU SURE HAD TO WATCH HER, BY GOD, SHE WAS THERE TO RUN THE STORE AND MAKE SOME MONEY. SHE WASN'T THERE FOR HER HEALTH OR NOTHING! [LAUGHg MS. K: YOU MEAN THAT SHE WOULD CHEAT.YOU? MR. D: WELL, SHE'D CHEAT ANYBODY, SHE DIDN'T CARE WHO YOU WERE. jLAUGHSj AS LONG AS SHE GOT THAT MONEY, YOU KNOW. OFFICE; SHE GOT THE POST OFFICE. AND SHE HAD THE POST AND THEN IN 1934, WHEN YOU COULD HAVE BEER, WHY SHE GOT A BEER DEAL. AND WHEN SHE LEFT, BY GOD, SHE WAS REALLY WELL OFF. THAT'S ALL THERE WAS TO IT: SHE WAS WELL OFF, VERY WELL OFF. AND THE LOVELY DAUGHTER. I'D GO UP THERE AND FLIRT WITH THE DAUGHTER. NINETEEN YEARS OLD. SHE WAS ABOUT SHE SURE WATCHED THAT DAUGHTER. YOU KNOW, SHE WANTED TO GET RID OF HER, BUT SHE WANTED TO GET SOME WEALTHY MAN; SHE DIDN'T WANT JUST SOME OLD GUY. I USED TO GO UP THERE, AND THE DAUGHTER AND I PLANNED TO GO TO A DANCE. SO I MADE A DATE WITH HER, AND SHE DIDN'T KNOW HOW SHE WAS GOING TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING. I TOLD HER ALONG AFTER DARK, WHY, I'D TAKE A LADDER AND PUT HER UP TO THE WINDOW, AND SHE COULD CLIMB DOWN THE LADDER. AND HER AND I WENT TO THE DANCE. SHE TOLD MOTHER, "WELL, GOODNIGHT MOTHER", AND "YEAH, GOODNIGHT DAUGHTER", AND SHE WENT UPSTAIRS AND SHE CHANGED HER CLOTHES. AND I WAS READY WITH THE LADDER, AND SHE CLIMBED AND SNEAKED �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE EVEVEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) DOWN THE LADDER, AND HER AND I WENT TO THE DANCE. DAMN, WE HAD A GOOD TIME. [LAUGHS] MY GOD, IT WAS ALL RIGHT, BUT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE POLITICAL DANCES. KNOW. POLITICIANS, YOU AND SO TWO DAYS HERE COME SOME POLITICIANS INTO MOTHER DAY'S AND TALKING TO MOTHER DAY AND "VOTE FOR ME" AND YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. AND YEAH, SHE SAID, "I GOT A DAUGHTER, TOO", AND^ WELL J THE POLITICIANS SAID, "YEAH, WE MET YOUR DAUGHTER." "WELL, WHERE?" "WELL, DOWN AT THE DANCE." MOTHER DAY FIGURED HOW IN THE WORLD DID SHE EVER GET TO THAT DANCE. SHE FINALLY GOT AFTER THE DAUGHTER, AND THE DAUGHTER TOLD HER SHE CLIMBED DOWN THE LADDER AND SNEAKED TO THE DANCE. GONNA SHOOT MEj [LAUGHS] SO, SHE WAS MOTHER DAY WAS GOING TO SHOOT ME. TOLD ME, "YOU BETTER NOT GO BACK INTO GUFFEY." "WHY?" "MOTHER DAY IS GOING TO SHOOT YOU." MY BROTHER AND I SAYS, I WENT BACK IN 2 0 w iT TO TALK TO HER, AND SHE WASN'T NEAR SO MAD AS SHE THOUGHT SHE . rj WAS. ANYHOW, I TOOK THE DAUGHTER. I WENT IN AND I ASKED,THEN; THE NEXT TIME, "CAN I TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER TO THE DANCE?" "OH, YES', YOU CAN. " FILLED UP THE OLD CAR WITH GAS AND WENT | UP THERE AND THOUGHT THE DAUGHTER WOULD BE READY. AND HERE COME THE DAUGHTER AND THE DANGED OLD SCHOOL TEACHER ABOUT FIFTY YEARS OLD AND PILED IN WITH US. I WONDERED WHAT IN THE HELL! [l AUGhJ] SHE SENT THE OLD GAL ALONG AS A CHAPERONE. [ a u g h t e r ] THERE WAS A LOT OF THEM OLD GALS UP IN THIS COUNTRY, l SOME OF THEM WAS ROUGH, AND OTHERS WAS NICE. THEY WAS JUST, OH, WOMEN. AND I DON'T KNOW, �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWELVE MS. K: WHEN DID THEY START COMING IN? WHEN DID YOU SEE AN INCREASE IN WOMEN? MR. D: ABOUT WORLD WAR ONE AND THEN ON; IT USED TO BE SHORT ON WOMEN. WHY THE'D COME IN. THERE WASN'T NO WOMEN. LOTS OF MEN, LOTS OF COWBOYS, BUT NO, NO WOMEN. BY GOD, DAMN, OH, OF COURSE CANON CITY OR CRIPPLE CREEK, YEAH, THEY HAD THEM. BUT NOT OUT HERE IN THE COUNTRY. MS. K: WERE YOU EVER ACQUAINTED WITH ANY INDIAN WOMEN OR SPANISH WOMEN? MR. D: WERE THERE ANY WHO LIVED AROUND HERE? NO, NOT, NO. WELL, THEY ALL GOT OUT OF HERE AT THAT TIME. THEY ALL GOT OUT. IN ARIZONA. THEY WAS GOING, LET'S SEE, THERE WAS SOME AND DOWN THERE, YOU COULD SEE THEM. COLORADO, THERE WAS SOME INDIAN WOMEN. PARTICULARLY HERE. MS. K: DID YOU EVER ASSOCIATE WITH ANY OF THEM? MR. D: OH, DOWN IN ARIZONA. END OF SIDE ONE AND WESTERN BUT NOT RIGHT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL APRIL 14, 1979 INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE THIRTEEN MR. D: YEAH, THAT GIRL IN ARIZONA, SHE WAS PRETTY NICE. ON THAT RANCH Jm ULESHOe ]FOR FOUR YEARS. SHE WORKED HELPER, YOU KNOW, HELPED IN THE HOUSE, THE FOREMAN'S WIFE, HELPED THE FOREMAN’S WIFE. SHE GOT A GOOD EDUCATION. SHE SAID SHE WENT THROUGH THE TWELFTH GRADE, AND SAID SHE HAD AN AWFUL TIME OF MAKING IT, TOO, TO GET THROUGH THE TWELFTH GRADE, BECAUSE, BY GOD, SHE HAD TO HERD SHEEP TO GET MONEY ENOUGH TO GO TO SCHOOL. AND WHEN SHE DID, SHE HAD A GOOD EDUCATION, AND SHE WAS PRETTY NICE, TOO. AND WASN'T A BAD LOOKING GAL. I USED TO - THE COWBOYS, THEY'D - SIDETRACK HER. BUT, 'COURSE, A LOT OF THEM WERE MARRIED AND HAD WIVES- I FIGURED, WELL, HELL, I'M DOWN HERE. - HELL, I TOOK HER, AND WE'D GO TO HILLSIDE AND PRESCOTT AND EVERYWHERE, AND, YOU KNOW, ON SATURDAYS. WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD TIME...BUT AS FAR AS INDIANS UP HERE, THEY DONE TAKEN THEM ALL OUT, YOU KNOW THEY TOOK THEM AWAY TO THE RESERVATION. MS. K: WHAT WAS THE FEELING OF OTHER PEOPLE TOWARD, SAY, A WHITE MAN GOING OUT WITH AN INDIAN WOMAN? MR. D: YEAH, KINDA, I THINK THEY DID. GOD, I WAS WAY OFF FROM HOME; IT WAS ALL RIGHT; WAS THAT LOOKED DOWN UPON? BUT DOWN THERE IN ARIZONA, I DIDN'T GIVE A DARN ANYHOW. SHE WAS JUST A GOOD PERSON. SHE WAS A GOOD PERSON. INDIAN, BUT NOWADAYS, WELL, LOTS OF GUYS COME BACK FROM THE ARMY, THEY GOT THOSE WIVES, KOREAN WIVES AND WIVES FROM OVER THERE IN THE ISLANDS...I DON'T GUESS IT HURTS. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE FOURTEEN MS. K: 52 > nnin] j£ DID YOU EVER KNOW OF ANY WIVES UP HERE THAT LEFT THEIR HUSBANDS? MAYBE THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT, OR DID THEY USUALLY DO WHAT THEIR HUSBANDS TOLD THEM TO DO? MR. D: THERE WAS ONE OLD WIFE AND FAMILY, THE ONE FELLOW. HE HAD A BUNCH OF WILD HORSES OUT HERE, AND HE THOUGHT HE COULD MAKE SOME MONEY ON WILD HORSES, AND GOOD GOD, YOU KNOW, YOU'D STARVE TO DEATH WITH THEM. HIM; FINALLY, BY GOD, HIS WIFE JUST UP AND LEFT THE FAMILY JUST PULLED OUT. HE HAD A WIFE AND A GIRL AND TWO BOYS, AND THEY JUST PULLED OUT AND TORE OUT. HE STAYED OVER THERE, AND, BY GOD, HE COULDN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY WITH THOSE DAMN HORSES TO FEED HIMSELF, YOU KNOW. THEY WERE JUST A BUNCH OF WILD HORSES, YOU KNOW, AND NO GOOD, NO GOOD, NO GOOD STOCK. IF THEY HAD BEEN GOOD STOCK OF HORSES, QUARTER HORSES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, HE'D HAVE MADE SOME MONEY. THEY WERE JUST THOSE LITTLE OLD BRONCOS. BUT FINALLY THE GOVERN­ MENT, FINALLY HE DIED, AND THE GOVERNMENT COME IN KILLED ALL THOSE HORSES - A HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE HEAD, IN ONE PLACE, GOT RID OF THEM, HUNT THEM JUST LIKE YOU WOULD DEER, YOU KNOW. YOU GOT RID OF THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE EATING UP THE GRASS ON GOVERNMENT GROUND, AND WERE NO GOOD. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK HIS WIFE LEFT HIM? MR. D: HE JUST DIDN'T MAKE A LIVING FOR HER. YOU KNOW, BY GOD, HE WOULDN'T SELL ONE HORSE IN A MONTH. MS. K: WHERE DO YOU THINK SHE WENT? MR. D: SHE WENT UP TO MONTANA. A SAWMILL. SHE HAD A BROTHER UP IN MONTANA RUN SHE WENT UP THERE WITH HIM. AND I THINK SOMEBODY �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE FIFTEEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) SAID SHE FINALLY GOT A DIVORCE AND MARRIED AGAIN UP THERE-MARRIED A GUY IN MONTANA. MS. K: WAS THIS AN UNUSUAL THING TO DO? MR. D: KINDA, YES, I THINK IT WAS... GENERALLY, UP IN THIS COUNTRY, THE MEN UP HERE WAS PRETTY HARD WORKERS. THEY'D MAKE A LIVING, YOU KNOW, IF THEY COULD. MS. K: DID YOU HAVE ANY SISTERS? MR. D: ANY SISTERS? MS. K: HOW WERE THEY RAISED COMPARED TO YOU? MR. D: OH, THEY ALL GOT GOOD SCHOOLING. FOUR. THEY ALL WENT TO SCHOOL. YEP, THEY ALL WENT CLEAR THROUGH HIGH WENT TO COLLEGE. SCHOOL, AND ONE OF THEM SO THEY GOT GOOD EDUCATION. DAD WAS A PRETTY GOOD PROVIDER; HE COULD MAKE IT. MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO WHEN THEY WERE SMALL, WHEN THEY WERE GROWING UP? MR. D: WHAT KIND OF CHORES DID THEY DO? HELP WITH THE HOUSEWORK, WASH CLOTHES [l AUGHs ] AND BAKE BREAD. YOU KNOW, THEY LEARNED ALL THAT STUFF THEY HAD TO DO. MS. K: DID 'THEY EVER GO OUT HUNTING OR LEARN TO USE A GUN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? MR. D: THE YOUNGEST ONE DID, YES. MY YOUNGEST SISTER WAS JUST ABOUT AS GOOD A HUNTER AS THEY COME. TRAINED HER, YOU KNOW. ’COURSE I AND MY BROTHER, WE WE TOOK HER HUNTING WITH US, AND GO IN THE BRUSH AND PUT HER SOMEWHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY’D BE BIG OLD BUCK WOULD COME OUT, AND BY GOD SHE’D BETTER GET HIM, TOO, OR W E ’D GIVE HER HELL. jjLAUGHs] MS. K: WELL, DID SHE? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE SIXTEEN MR. D: YOU BET SHE DID. I REMEMBER THE FIRST BUCK SHE KILLED. AH, (3C Min3 HE WAS A JUMBO. SHE JUST CRIED, "BOO HOO HOO, DID I KILL THE POOR THING?" I SAID, "YOU BET YOU DID." GREAT BIG OLD BUCK. [LAUGHS] SHE FINALLY LEARNED TO BE A GOOD HUNTER. MS. K: WAS THAT UNUSUAL? MR. D: THAT WAS UNUSUAL, YES. MS. K: YOUR MOTHER, HOW DID SHE FEEL ABOUT THAT? MR. D: OH, SHE DIDN'T LIKE IT MUCH, BUT SHE COULDN'T DO MUCH ABOUT IT. HELL, WE'D GET OUT AND HUNT AND GET SOME MEAT. MS. K: WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE YOUROTHERSISTERS MR. D: MMM, GOD, THEY DIDN'T WANT TOGO, THEY WOULDN'T. WITH YOU. MS. K: OUT TO HUNT? THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HUNT. THE LITTLE ONE, SHE WOULD; THEY LEARN GOOD, YOU KNOW. SHE'D GO HUNTING THEY DO, THEY LEARN. WERE THERE ANY OTHER OUTSTANDING WOMEN OR JUST ORDINARY WOMEN? THEY PROBABLY HAD TO BE PRETTY OUTSTANDING, ANYWAY. MR. D: THEY WERE, THEY WERE, YEP, THEY WERE. OH, THEM HOUSEWIVES, BY GOD, THEY WORKED HARD, BECAUSE NOTHING LIKE YOU GOT NOWADAYS. YOU GRAB A SACK OF CLOTHES, GO IN AND DUMP THEM IN THE WASHING MACHINE, THROW THEM IN THE DRYER, AND YOU GO DOWN, AND THEY'RE DONE. AND YOU GOT MOST OF THIS MATERIAL NOW SO THAT IT'S.., YOU JUST HANG THEM UP, AND THEY'RE ALREADY IRONED, YOU KNOW. MS. K: WERE THERE CERTAIN THINGS THAT WERE CONSIDERED WOMEN'S WORK AND MEN'S WORK? MR. D: WOMEN WEREN'T OUTSIDE MUCH. NO, THEY DIDN'T GET OUT IN THE YARD AND THE BARNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. HOUSE THAT WAS THEIR PLACE THEY STAYED IN ' T E .H �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE SEVENTEEN MS. K WHAT WAS THE CLOSEST TOWN? MR. D YEAH, YEAH, GUFFEY. MS. K HOW BIG WAS IT THEN? MR. D IT WAS ABOUT TWO HUNDRED, AND THEN IT FADED AWAY. MS. K HOW OFTEN DO YOU THINK THOSE WOMEN GOT TO COME INTO TOWN? MR. D THEY'D COME IN ONCE A WEEK. THEY GOT CARS; WAS THIS THE CLOSEST TOWN? PRETTY NEAR ONCE A WEEK. AND THEY FINALLY GOT CARS UP IN THIS COUNTRY. AND THEN THEY HAD TO BUILD ROADS SO THAT THEY COULD GET OVER THEM WITH THE CARS. PRETTY BAD ROADS AT ONE TIME, [?) ROADS. BUT, HELL, THEY FINALLY GOT UP CARS. EVER SAW. IT WAS A MAXWELL. I REMEMBER THE FIRST CAR I ” FUNNY LOOKING THING TO ME, AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER IT WOULD RUN OR NOT. [ AUGHs ] IF A FELLOW l WOULD GO DOWN HILL, IT WOULD GO LIKE HELL, AND THEN IT WOULDN’T COME UP HILL VERY FAST. ^LAUGHs] BUT YOU SURE COULD GO DOWNHILL FAST. MS. K: DID YOU EVER KNOW ANY WOMEN OUTSIDE OF THE LAW? MR. D: OH GOD, YES. MS. K: IN WHAT WAYS? MR. D: THEY WERE PRETTY ROUGH. WE HAD A LOT OF THEM. LIKE THOSE THREE THAT HOMESTEADED UP HERE. AND BY GOD, THREE FELLOWS BETTER GO TO VISIT THEM, BECAUSE, IF ONE WENT, BY GOD, THEY'D ROB HIM. MS. K: DID THE PEOPLE EVER TAKE THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS, OR DID THE SHERIFF CONTROL THAT, OR DID THEY LEAVE THE WOMEN ALONE? MR. D: LET 'EM ALONE. [ AUGHs ] l MS. K: DO YOU THINK IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE WOMEN? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE EIGHTEEN MR. D: NO, I THINK IT WAS JUST THAT HE, YOU KNOW, PASS THE BUCK. THE HELL. AH, LET THEM ALONE AS LONG AS THEY WEREN'T RAISING TOO MUCH HELL, WELL, LET THEM ALONE. [l AUGHs] MS. K: SO IT WAS PRETTY UNCOMMON TO SEE WOMEN IN JAIL. MR. D: YEAH, THOSE THREE, THOSE THREE GALS, THEY WERE ROUGH! AND, OF COURSE, A GUY WOULD FEEL SO GOD DAMN CHEAP THAT HE WOULDN’T SAY NOTHING AND WOULDN'T GO BACK AGAIN. A THING ABOUT IT, SEE. BUT YOU WOULDN'T SAY YOU'D*JUST KEEP STILL. BECAUSE, HELL, THEY'D ROB YOU, DAMN THEY WERE TOUGH. jjLAUGHSf MS. K: SO WHEN A WOMAN WAS MARRIED AND HAD A LOT OF CHILDREN AND HER HUSBAND DIED, DID SHE USUALLY STAY OR DID SHE LEAVE? MR. D: OH, PROBABLY GET HITCHED AGAIN, GET MARRIED AGAIN, YEAH. MS. K: HERE? MR. D: OH, MAYBE HERE, YES. BECAUSE AS I SAY, THERE WAS LOTS OF BACHELORS IN THIS COUNTRY. THERE WAS LOTS OF BACHELORS. MS. K: DID PEOPLE EVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SINGLE WOMEN OR WIDOWED WOMEN? MR. D: NO, THEY WOULDN'T. THEY HAD A LOT OF RESPECT FOR WOMEN, YOU KNOW. MS. K: DID THEY EVER HELP THEM OUT? MR. D: YES, THEY WOULD. THEY'D HELP THEM OUT__ OH, MRS. LANDERS, HER "'HUSBAND DIED, AND BY GOD, SHE HAD THAT RANCH OUT THERE, AND YOU KNOW, MY GOD, SHE LEASED IT ON SHARES. SO MUCH PER CENT, YOU KNOW, CROP, CROP LEASE, JUST LEASED IT. MADE PRETTY GOOD. SHE DONE ALL RIGHT. AND SHE BECAUSE MY OLD DAD AND I LEASED IT, AND WE RAISED I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TONS OF �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE NINETEEN MR. D: (CONTINUED) POTATOES. AND BY GOD SHE DONE ALL RIGHT ON THAT; DON'T THINK SHE DIDN'T. 'COURSE SHE HAD A BROTHER OVER THERE ON LONE CHIMNEY, WHAT THEY CALL LONE CHIMNEY. AND HE'D COME OVER, AND HE HELPED HER. AND THEN THERE WAS MRS. WITCHER, YOU KNOW, THE LOWELL WITCHER RANCH. MRS. WITCHER, SHE WAS A WIDOW, AND BY GOD, SHE HAD A FOREMAN. SHE HAD A CATTLE OUTFIT SHE HAD A FOREMAN. MS. K: AND HE TOOK CARE OF THE RANCH? MR. D: YEAH. THERE WAS LOTS OF TIMES THE FOREMAN GOT TO BE PRETTY GODDAMN SHADY, YOU KNOW. LAUGHS BUT HE WAS A GOOD GUY. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS A RELATIVE OF HER OR NOT, BUT SEEMS LIKE SHE NEVER HAD TROUBLE WITH HIM. MS. K: DO YOU THINK SHE WAS STILL PRETTY MUCH THE BOSS, OR DID SHE GO ALONG WITH... MR. D: WHATEVER HE SAID, YES. WELL, HE MADE HER MONEY, ANYHOW. HE MIGHT HAVE FILLED HIS POCKETS, TOO, BUT ANYHOW HE MADE HER MONEY. HE WAS A PRETTY GOOD GUY...OH, AND A LOT OF THOSE WOMEN, THEIR HUSBAND WOULD DIE OR SOMETHING, AND THEY'D LEASE THE RANCH, LEASE IT OUT AND MOVE TO TOWN. MS. K: WHICH TOWN? MR. D: CANON, OR SOME TOWN, COLORADO SPRINGS. MOVE TO TOWN AND LEASE THE RANCH...SO MUCH OF THE CROP, OR ELSE THEY'D LEASE FOR CASH, MS. K: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE GENERAL ATTITUDE TOWARD WOMAN WAS AMONG MEN AT THE TIME OF YOUR GRANDPARENTS OR YOUR PARENTS? MR. D: OH, THEY, I WOULDN'T KNOW. THING. THEY NEVER LET THE WOMEN RUN THE THEY'D RUN IT THEMSELVES. LIKE ROWE OVER HERE, HE, �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY MR. D: (CONTINUED) THE MAN I WORKED FOR FOR SO MANY YEARS, THAT CATTLEMAN. GOD DANG HIS WIFE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER HE HAD TEN DOLLARS IN THE BANK OR FIFTY THOUSAND. HE NEVER TOLD HER ONE THING OF HIS BUSINESS. MS. K: WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK? MR. D: I COULD NEVER TELL UNLESS HE DIDN'T WANT HIS BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, 0 O K fn .] PUBLISHED...AND THERE WAS ONE WOMAN DOWN HERE, GUY, THAT FOSTER'S WIFE, FOSTER MARRIED HER AND GOD DANG, THE FIRST YEAR, YOU KNOW, HERE COME THE ASSESSOR. OF CATTLE. FOSTER HAD QUITE A FEW HEAD HERE COME THE OLD ASSESSOR, TAX ASSESSOR, AND HE COME IN, AND HE'D EAT DINNER AND HE SAID, "FOSTER, HOW MANY CATTLE HAVE YOU GOT?" WELL, FOSTER CUT HIS HERD DOWN AND TOLD HIM HE ONLY HAD A HUNDRED HEAD. HUNDRED HEAD. WELL, HE HAD THREE OR FOUR "OH", HE SAID, "I JUST GOT A HUNDRED HEAD", AND THAT WOMAN, HIS WIFE, SPOKE UP AND SAID, "OH, MY GOD, GUY, WE GOT TWICE THAT MANY CATTLE!" [l AUGHTEr / THAT REALLY GOT HIM IN JACK POT, YOU KNOW. THAT'S WHY ROWE, HE WOULDN'T TELL HER A THING, SHE NEVER KNEW NOTHING. HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. ONE ANOTHER. WHEN HE DIED, HE LEFT A AND HER, THEY DIED WITHIN A WEEK OF HER PART WENT TO THE JEWISH HOSPITAL IN DENVER OR SOMETHING UP THERE, AND HIS PART WENT TO BOYS TOWN, SOMEWHERE. MS. K: DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR GRANDMOTHER, EITHER ONE OF YOUR GRAND­ MOTHERS, HAD ANY EDUCATION? MR. D: ONE DIDN'T, BUT THE OTHER ONE DID. MS. K: HOW ABOUT YOUR MOTHER? MR. D: MOTHER HAD A GOOD EDUCATION, YES. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-ONE MS. K: WHERE DID SHE GET IT? MR. D: OH, THERE WAS A SCHOOL, BLACK MOUNTAIN, IN THERE, MS. K: HOW MANY KIDS WERE IN THAT SCHOOL AT THAT TIME, DO YOU KNOW? MR. D: IN THE LITTLE TOWN, THERE [ALHAMBRA, NEAR GUFFEy ) DOZEN. YEAH. TEACHERS. PROBABLY A DOZEN KIDS, YOU KNOW. MS. K: AND THEY HIRED A SCHOOL TEACHER JUST FOR A DOZEN KIDS? MR. D: OH YES. MS. K: AND THE SCHOOL TEACHER, WAS IT A WOMAN? MR. D: UMM HMM. MS. K: WAS SHE SINGLE? MR. D: UMM HMM. MS. K: HOW DID SHE LIVE? MR. D: OH, SHE BOARDED WITH SOME OF THE, WELL, HAD THIS SCHOOL YOU BET. WHERE DID SHE LIVE? TEACHER DOWN HERE. SHE TAUGHT DOWN NEAR GROVES, AND SHE BOARDED RIGHT THERE. SHE HAD HER OWN ROOM AND EVERYTHING. SHE BOARDED RIGHT THERE. MS. K: HOW WERE THEY TREATED? HOW WERE SCHOOL TEACHERS THOUGHT OF? MR. D: THOUGHT OF GOOD. MS. K: WAS IT COMMON FOR A WOMAN LIKE YOUR MOTHER TO GO TO SCHOOL? MR. D: YEAH, SHE'D GO. DECENT, REALLY GOOD. YEAH, SHE WENT. SHE WENT QUITE A WAYS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE SHE HAD A PRETTY GOOD EDUCATION. THAN AVERAGE. YEP, MORE THAN AVERAGEj EVEN GO. MS. K: WHY, DO YOU THINK? MR. D: AH, DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED IT. MS. K WHO DIDN'T THINK THEY NEEDED IT? VERY, FAR MORE A LOT OF THEM DIDN'T �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-TWO MR. D: AH, THEM OLD WOMEN, I SUPPOSE. THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO. AND MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE AND FOR THAT, MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD THE CHANCE...NO, I DIDN'T GO. I DIDN'T GO AT ALL, HARDLY. I WENT THROUGH FIFTH GRADE, AND I THOUGHT I KNEW MORE THAN THE TEACHER. I QUIT. [LAUGHTER] GOOD DEAL, HUH. MS. K: WERE THERE ANY WOMEN CATTLE RANCHERS? WHEN THEY TOOK UP A SECTION OF LAND, DID THEY PUT CATTLE ON? MR. D: OH, A FEW OF THEM WOULD GET SOME COWS, YES. THEY COULD HANDLE, YES. HOW MUCH CATTLE NOW, SIS GREEN, SHE WAS A CATTLEWOMAN. SHE HAD QUITE AN OUTFIT, QUITE A BIT OF LAND DOWN THERE IN BEAR HILLS, YOU KNOW. SIS GREEN, SHE WAS QUITE A CATTLEWOMAN, CATTLE. HER DAD LEFT HER WITH HIS CATTLE; YOU KNOW, HE WILLED THEM, WILLED ALL OF HIS CATTLE AND ALL THAT LAND, AND BY GOD, SHE DONE ALL RIGHT, SIS GREEN DID. MS. K: DID SHE DO A LOT OF THE ACTUAL WORK? MR. D: NO, SHE'D HIRE IT DONE. HIRE IT. AND COME THE ROUND UP, WHY THEY'D ALL, WELL THEY'D BRAND HER CALVES, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'D SEE A CALF OF HERS. HELL, THEY'D BRAND IT FOR HER. MS. K: YOU MEAN OTHER COWBOYS THAT WORKED FOR DIFFERENT RANCHES? MR. D: YEAH, ANY, ANY COWBOY. HAD THE ROUND UP, YOU KNOW, AND HAD SOME OF HER CATTLE IN THERE AND LITTLE CALVES. WHY, DRAG THEM OUT AND BRAND THEM SIS GREEN. MS. K: DO YOU THINK THAT IF THEY HAD BELONGED TO A MAN THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT THE COWS AND BRANDED THEM FOR THEIR OWN, OR WOULD HAVE BRAN­ DED THEM FOR THE OTHER RANCHER? MR. D: THEY'D BRAND THEM FOR THE OTHER RANCHER. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO, PAGE TWENTY-THREE MS. K: WOULD THEY? MR. D: YEAH. PRETTY SQUARE, PRETTY SQUARE, THERE. THEY'D BETTER BRAND WHATEVER BRAND WAS ON THE COW, OR YOU'D GET IN TROUBLE. BUT SIS GREEN USED TO COME OUT ONCE IN A WHILE ON THE ROUND UP. SHOW UP AND TALK TO SOME OF THOSE FOREMEN, YOU KNOW, AND TELL "IF, WELL, YOU SEE ANY OF MY"- "WELL, W E ’LL BRAND THEM £46 M m 3 FOR YOU." END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL INTERVIEWER AND TRANSCRIBER: LORI KENNEDY APRIL 14, 1979 TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-FOUR MR. D: THERE WAS A YOUNG LADY TOOK UP A HOMESTEAD ON, AHEAD OF, NEAR WAUGH MOUNTAIN, WAY OVER IN THERE, AND SHE WAS ABOUT TWENTY-ONE, AND SHE, HER AND HER FOLKS LIVED THERE. HER FOLKS LIVED ABOUT FIVE MILES THIS SIDE OF WHERE SHE TOOK UP HER HOMESTEAD. WAS TWENTY-ONE. FOR PASTURE. SHE SO ROWE, THAT'S THE BOSS, HE LEASED HER LAND I'D GO OVER THERE EVERY SO OFTEN TO LOOK ABOUT THE CATTLE, YOU KNOW, IN SUMMER. I'D GO THROUGH THE OLD FELLOW AND THE OLD LADIES' PLACE AND BOY, IF YOU GO IN THERE, AND YOU HAD TO CHECK, YOU KNOW, TELL HER, "YEAH, I'M GOING IN THE BUILDING AND LOOK ABOUT THE COWS." AND BY GOD, YOU BETTER BE OUT OF THERE, TOO, IN THE EVENING OR THEY'D COME LOOKING TO SEE WHAT WAS THE MATTER. [l AUGHe LILLIAN WAS A GOOD SCOUT. T] FINALLY, OUR CATTLE GOT TO GETTING OFF IN WHAT THEY CALL DEVIL'S HOLE. THERE'S A BIG HOLE IN THERE. GOD THEY CUT OFF DOWN AT THE RIVER. YOU GO OFF THERE AND BY SO WE DECIDED THAT WE WOULD BUILD A FENCE UP ON TOP THERE ALONG SO THEY COULDN'T GET DOWN IN. YEP, THEY WERE BOTH BUILDING, YEAH, THEY WERE FAVORABLE. I WENT OVER THERE TO BUILD A FENCE. EVERY DAY. SHE'D BRING US LUNCH A FELLOW DIDN'T HAVE TO BRING A LUNCH. AND SHE'D PUT NAIL STAPLES ON THE FENCE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, YOU KNOW. SHE WAS A PRETTY GOOD SCOUT. WHEN SHE PROVED UP, SHE SOLD HER PLACE AND MOVED TO CANON AND BOUGHT A BEAUTY PARLOR. SHE WENT TO, SHE LEASED IT OUT AND LET PEOPLE OPERATE ITT AND SHE GUARDED AT THE PRISON. MATRON, MATRON AT THE PRISON. I �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-FIVE MR. D : ' (CONTINUED) DON'T KNOW WHAT EVER BECAME OF HER. DEAD BY NOW. TIME AGO. I'M POSITIVE SHE MIGHT BE DEAD. SHE MIGHT BE THAT WAS A LONG AND OVER IN, WELL, BEULAH BEELER, HER AND HER MOTHER AND BROTHER, THEY WERE UP HERE AT BLACK MOUNTAIN. BEULAH HOMESTEADED, SO DID THE BROTHER. SHE HOMESTEADED, THEY TOOK UP LAND. AND MY GOD, THE BROTHER, HE WASN'T MAKING MONEY FAST ENOUGH, SO HE THOUGHT HE'D RUSTLE A FEW COWS. OH GOD, HE GOT CAUGHT. [l a u g h s ] THEY SENT HIM DOWN HERE TO THE SLAMMER, CANON, THE PEN. AND HE. WASN'T IN THERE NO TIME AND HE WENT HAYWIRE AND THEY TOOK HIM TO PUEBLO AND PUT HIM IN THE ASYLUM. AND THE OLD LADY, SHE JUST, FINALLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE GOT HIM OUT OF THERE, BUT SHE GOT HIM OUT OF THERE SOME WAY. BROUGHT HIM UP THERE AND LOCKED HIM IN THE, PUT HIM IN THE CABIN THERE, AND CHAINED HIM TO THE WALL, AND HE WAS THERE FOR TWELVE YEARS. MS. K: HE NEVER WENT OUTSIDE? MR. D: NO, NO, SHE JUST CHAINED HIM THERE. AND FINALLY, BY GOD, THE SISTER DIED, AND SHE TOLD THEM WHEN SHE WAS SICK, "YOU BETTER GET UP AND GET MY BROTHER OUT OF THAT BLACK MOUNTAIN COUNTRY." AND THEY WENT UP THERE, THE SHERIFF DID, AND THEY FOUND HIM AND HE WAS CHAINED TO THAT BUILDING. THE OLD LADY WAS THERE, YOU KNOW, SHE’D FEED HIM LIKE YOU WOULD AN ANIMAL, YOU KNOW. FINALLY GOT HIM OUT OF THERE AND TOOK HIM TO FAIRPLAY. FAIRPLAY, THEY TOOK HIM BACK DOWN TO THE ASYLUM. THEY FROM AND MY GOD, THOSE DOCTORS GOT AFTER HIM AND IT WASN'T NO TIME TIL HE WAS OUT MOWING THE LAWNS AND TRIMMING HEDGES. HE'D OF GOT ALL RIGHT IF SHE'D HAVE TAKEN HIM TO A DOCTOR INSTEAD OF LOCKING HIM IN. HE'D OF GOT ALL RIGHT, YOU KNOW. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-SIX MS. K: DID ANYBODY KNOW THAT HE'D BEEN MISSING? MR. D: EVERYBODY KNEW IT, BUT THEY FIGURED IT WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW. OWN BUSINESS. IN TROUBLE. BUSINESS." IN THEM DAYS, BY GOD, YOU TENDED TO YOUR YOU'D BETTER, BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D GET YOU KNOW, THEY FIGURE, WELL, "THAT'S NOT MY WE KNEW HE WAS THERE. PEOPLE DID, YOU KNOW, THEY KNEW HE WAS THERE BUT FIGURED THEY'D BETTER TEND TO THEIR OWN CSOM'a.3 BUSINESS. THAT WAS IT. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK SHE DID THAT? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. SHE WAS CRAZY. SHE DIDN'T WANT HIM IN THAT ASYLUM, SO SHE BROUGHT HIM HOME. MS. K: SHE WOULDN'T LET HIM OUT AT ALL? MR. D: HE WAS CHAINED. LOCKED HIM UP. HE WAS CHAINED TO THE WALL. SO THEY JUST BURNED THE BUILDING DOWN AND TOOK HER TO FAIRPLAY. OLD LADY DIED AFTER SHE GOT TO FAIRPLAY. AH, THE SHE COULDN'T LIVE UP THERE BY HERSELF, SO THEY JUST TOOK HER UP TO FAIRPLAY AND PUT" HER IN A HOSPITAL AND SHE DIDN’ LIVE LONG. T QUITE A BIT OF LAND UP THERE. SHE DIED. THEY HAD I THINK THREE OR FOUR SECTIONS. SEE, THE BOY FILED ON LAND AND THE OLD LADY FILED ON LAND, AND THE GIRL FILED ON LAND AND THEY HAD QUITE A BIT OF LAND. MS. K: WHAT DID THEY DO WITH IT? MR. D: THEY SOLD IT TO PERKINS. A FELLOW BY THE NAME OF PERKINS BOUGHT IT. MS. K: DID THEY FARM IT WHILE THEY WERE LIVING THERE? MR. D: YEAH, THEY FARMED, OH YOU BET THEY FARMED. THEY RAISED POTATOES, GEEZ, BY THE TONS. AND HAY, YOU KNOW, JUST TONS OF POTATOES. AND THEY HAD MILK COWS, PIGS AND STUFF LIKE THAT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-SEVEN MS. K: CAN YOU TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT THE LADY THAT BUILT THE COVER MOUNTAIN LODGE? MR. D: OH, YEAH, THAT WAS BARBARA, BARBARA GLAZE. LODGE ABOUT 1930. SHE DIVORCED GLAZE. A FELLOW NAME OF GLAZE. SHE WAS MARRIED TO HIM, AND SHE WAS WEALTHY. WAS WEALTHY. YEAH, SHE BUILT THAT THE OLD WOMAN SHE COME OUT HERE, AND OLD GLAZE, HE HAD A HARNESS SHOP IN THE SPRINGS. 'COURSE SHE WENT THERE TO HAVE A DOG HARNESS FIXED AND OF COURSE HE WAS QUITE A LADIES' MAN. HE WAS A GOER. BY GOD, SHE MARRIED HIM AND THEY MOVED UP HERE ON THIRTY ONE CREEK. BOUGHT THREE, FOUR THOUSAND ACRES OF LAND IN THERE AND HIM AND HER COULDN'T GET ALONG, SO SHE DIVORCED HIM. WENT OUT TO NEVADA AND STAYED OUT THERE SIX WEEKS AND GOT HER DIVORCE. AND SHE CAME BACK AND BOUGHT THIS LAND ON COVER MOUNTAIN, BUILT THAT LODGE, AND IT WAS A BIG ONE, A BIG OLD LODGE. A GOOD ONE. WELL, SHE RAISED A FEW HORSES AND FINALLY GOT TIRED OF IT AND SOLD IT. YOU KNOW HOW THEY DO. MS. K: WHAT DID SHE USE IT FOR? MR. D: OH, JUST TO SHOW, YOU KNOW. MS. K: SHE DIDN'T HAVE PEOPLE LIVING IN IT THEN? MR. D: SHE LIVED IN IT HERSELF. END OF THE FRONT ROOM. GIVE PARTIES THERE. GOD, IT HAD A FIREPLACE IN EACH BIG FIREPLACE, IT WAS A BIG ROOM. YEAH, SHE GAVE SOME WONDERFUL PARTIES. FINALLY, SHE GOT A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH. THE DEPRESSION. SHE'D THAT WAS DURING THAT WAS A LOT OF MONEY THEN, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH. SHE GAVE THAT PLACE OUT THERE ON THIRTY ONE CREEK, SHE JUST GAVE IT TO GLAZE JUST GAVE IT TO HIM AND �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-EIGHT MR. D: (CONTINUED) TOOK OFF. HE DIED LAST, LAST MONTH. HE DIED, HE WAS IN CANON CITY. I SEEN WHERE HE WAS AN OLD MAN, EIGHTY YEARS OLD PRETTY NEAR, AND HE DIED. SHE'D BE WAY UP IN HER SEVENTIES. SHE WENT BACK EAST, YOU KNOW. WENT BACK TO HER FOLKS. HER MOTHER TOLD HER IF SHE MARRIED ANOTHER WESTERNER, SHE'D QUIT HER. BY GOD, SHE MARRIED ANOTHER WESTERNER, SO HER MOTHER QUIT HER. AND WHEN HER MOTHER DIED, SHE WENT BACK, YOU KNOW, AND SHE GOT ALL THAT MONEY. HOW THEY DO. OUT WEST. MS. K: HER MOTHER WAS WEALTHY. SHE HAD A SISTER. YOU KNOW THE SISTER, SHE DIDN'T COME SHE JUST STAYED BACK THERE. WHEN DID BARBARA GLAZE COME OUT? CSS M in d MR. D: 1926. ABOUT THAT TIME. CATTLE. SHE BOUGHT SOME CATTLE, A BUNCH OF HE DIDN'T HAVE A DAMN THING. HE WAS JUST WORTHLESS. HE DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING, BUT SHE BOUGHT HIM CATTLE AND HORSES AND ALL THOSE THINGS. HIS CATTLE. FINALLY, THEY GOT ME TO HELP HIM BRAND WENT UP THERE TO HELP HIM BRAND HIS CATTLE; COME A DRIZZLY RAIN. YOU COULDN'T BRAND THE COWS. IN "TO HELL", I TOLD HIM, I SAYS, "YOU CAN'T BRAND CATTLE IN THIS KIND OF WEATHER", I SAYS, "WAIT TIL THE SUN COMES OUT AND THE CATTLE DRY OFF. BECAUSE YOU TRY TO BRAND THOSE OLD COWS AND THEIR HAIR WILL MAT." YOU KNOW. YOU COULDN'T BRAND THEM, JUST SCALD IT ON, HE DIDN'T KNOW. HE THOUGHT HE KNEW, BUT HE DIDN'T. HE WAS WORTHLESS--- GLAZE. MS. K: I'M GOING TO BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT AND ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR MOTHER. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE TWENTY-NINE MR. D: MOTHER? MS. K: YES. YOU SAID THAT, YOU'D MENTIONED BEFORE ABOUT THE CHIEF THAT CAME INTO HER HOUSE. MR. D: THAT'S GRANDMOTHER. CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THAT? MY GRANDMOTHER DELL, HELL, THE INDIANS WOULD COME TO HER HOUSE. SHE'D BAKE BREAD. GIVE THEM A LOAF OF BREAD, AND THEY'D GO. [l AUGHS] YOU HAD TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING, OR BY GOD, THEY'D HANG AROUND FOREVER. MS. K: THEY'D JUST COME RIGHT IN THE HOUSE? MR. D: OH YEAH, IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE DOOR LOCKED, THEY'D WALK RIGHT IN. THEY THOUGHT, THEY DIDN'T KNOW ( AUGHs] OR LOOK IN AT THE l WINDOW AND THEN COME IN... GRANDFATHER DOUGLAS, HE KNEW CHIEF DOUGLAS. THAT'S HOW CHIEF DOUGLAS GOT HIS, HE TOOK THAT NAME OF DOUGLAS BECAUSE GRANDFATHER WAS GOOD TO HIM, YOU KNOW, HE WAS GOOD TO THOSE INDIANS. AND YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO BE LIKE HIM, YOU KNOW, THEY THOUGHT HE WAS NICE. WELL, ONE OF THOSE CHIEFS, ONE OF THOSE YOUNG FELLOWS, TOOK THE NAME OF DOUGLAS. SO THEY CALLED HIM CHIEF DOUGLAS. MS. K: WHAT KIND OF INDIANS WERE THEY? MR. D: UTES. OH, THAT INDIAN THOUGHT THAT WAS AN AWFUL GOOD NAME. DOUGLAS. SO HE WENT BY THE NAME OF CHIEF DOUGLAS. I GUESS HE WAS IN ON THAT MEEKER DEAL OVER THERE. I KNOW CHIEF DOUGLAS HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT. MS. K: WAS YOUR GRANDMOTHER EVER AFRAID OF THESE INDIANS COMING INTO HER HOME? MR. D: SHE WASN'T AFRAID OF THEM, NO. I GUESS. SHE JUST GOT ALONG WITH THEM, JUST BE ALONE AND HAVE A DAMN INDIAN OR TWO WALK IN, YOU WOULDN' KNOW WHAT TO DO. \LAUGHS 1 T �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY MS. K: DID SHE EVER ASSOCIATE WITH ANY OF THE INDIAN WOMEN? MR. D: NO, SHE WOULDN'T. SHE WOULDN'T THEY KNEW COLORAW AWFUL WELL. ASSOCIATE WITH THEM. COLORAW, HETD JUST MAKE HIS ROUNDS AND COME UP CURRENT CREEK, AND WHEREVER HE HAPPENED TO BE, HE'D STOP, AND HE LIKED BISCUITS AND BEANS. [LAUGHS] THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO EAT, BISCUITS AND BEANS. GRANDMA SAID YOU ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE A KETTLE OF BEANS COOKED BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T TELL WHEN THAT OLD DEVIL WAS GOING TO SHOW UP. HE'D DEMAND BISCUITS AND BEANS. [LAUGHsJ MS. K: YOU THINK THAT YOUR GRANDMOTHER AND MOTHER, DO YOU THINK THEY LIKED LIVING OUT HERE? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU THINK THEY WERE HAPPY? THEY PROBABLY HAD TO BE. THEY COULDN'T DO MUCH ELSE, I GUESS. MS. K: WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR MOTHER? MR. D: AH, SHE DIED. HAD A HEART ATTACK. THAT WAS BEFORE THEY WAS UO M'l-'CI SO MANY OF THEM. EVERYDAY THEY HAVE HEART ATTACKS, BUT THEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE MANY OF THEM. WOULD HAVE A HEART ATTACK. ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE SOMEBODY NOW, BY GOD, THAT'S JUST AN EVERYDAY OCCURRENCE. MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK SHE HAD A HEART ATTACK? MR. D: I WOULDN'T KNOW. A LITTLE TOO FAT. SHE QUIT WORKING SO HARD, AND I THINK SHE GOT THAT COULD HAVE BROUGHT IT ON, YOU KNOW. SHE FINALLY GOT SO SHE DIDN'T WORK HARD NO MORE. QUIT. SHE JUST AH, SHE MADE QUIETS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT THAT HARD r WORK, SHE JUST QUIT AND I THINK SHE GOT NOT ACTIVE AND NOT GET OUT AND GO AND DO ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF LIKE SHE DID. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-ONE MS: K: SO SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK AS HARD ANYMORE? MR. D: OH NO, AS SHE GOT OLDER, WE ALL SEEN THAT SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORK AS HARD. MS. K: DID YOU AND YOUR SISTERS TAKE OVER HER CHORES? MR. D: AH, MY SISTERS GOT HITCHED AS QUICK AS THEY COULD. GOT THE HELL AWAY. YOU KNOW, GET AWAY. MS. K: DIDN'T THEY LIKE IT HERE? MR. D: OH LORD NO. MS. K: WHY NOT? MR. D: [LAUGHS^] I DON'T - KNOW. THEY JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT HERE. YOU SEE LOTS OF YOUNG WOMEN THAT LIKES IT HERE. NOW THAT'S UN­ USUAL, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE BACK IN MY TIME, MY GOD, SHE'D TELL YOU "YES, LET'S GO TO TOWN." MS. K: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WAS? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. JUST DIDN'T HAVE TO STAY UP HERE IN THE COUNTRY. ALL OF THEM WOULD LEAVE, GO TO TOWN. BETTER THEY LIKE IT. THE BIGGER TOWN, THE FELLOWS, THEY DIDN'T CARE. THEY'D STAY UP HERE. MS. K: WHO LIVED LONGER, THE MEN OR THE WOMEN? MR. D: THE WOMEN. MS. K: WHY IS THAT? MR. D: I DON'T KNOW. LIVE LONGER. MS. K: THEY DO RIGHT NOW. YEAH, RIGHT NOW, THE WOMEN SEEMS LIKE IT. LOOKING BACK ON THE WAY THINGS WERE FOR YOU AND YOUR SISTERS, IF YOU COULD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AND HAD THE CHOICE, WOULD YOU HAVE RATHER BEEN A GIRL OR A BOY IN THE WAY YOU WERE RAISED? �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-TWO MR. D: BOY. MS. K: HOW COME? MR. D: AH, GOD YOU WERE MORE SUITABLE FOR THE COUNTRY. THEY'D GET OUT AND THEY WERE MORE SUITABLE. COULD COOK. AND ALL OF US CHRIST ALMIGHTY, THEY'D COME OUT TO VISIT ME ON THE RANCH AND MY GOD, I'D DU ALL THE COOKING. THE COOKING. [ AUGHs! NO, l I ’D DO ALL MAKE THE BISCUITS, FRY THE STEAK AND POTATOES. I'D TELL THEM IF THEY WANTED A SALAD THEY HAD TO BRING THEIR OWN STUFF TO MAKE THEIR OWN SALAD BECAUSE I WASN'T MUCH FOR THAT. I'D FRY THE ROAST BEEF AND FRY A STEAK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND MAKE GRAVY, BISCUITS, COFFEE AND BUTTER. I ALWAYS HAD BUTTER FROM MY MILK COWS, AND W E 'D HAVE MILK TO DRINK OR COFFEE OR WHATEVER YOU WANT. GOD DANG, THEY'D COME OUT THERE AND THEY'D EAT AND EAT AND EAT. ^LAUGHS] MS. K DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER TO HAVE BEEN A BOY? MR. D YES, IT WAS. MS. K IN WHAT WAYS? MR. D OH, LOTS OF WAYS. YOU KNOW. YOU WERE JUST MORE SUITABLE TO THE COUNTRY, A GIRL, HELL, THEY COULDN'T, AH, THEY WANTED TO GO TO TOWN WHERE IT WAS NICE AND ALL THAT STUFF, YOU KNOW. THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PACK WATER AND DIDN'T HAVE TO PACK WOOD. /^LAUGHS MS. K: THEY DIDN'T? MR. D: NOT IN TOWN...AND UP HERE THEY'D HAVE TO, IF A FELLOW WASN'T L M *<0 J AROUND, THEY'D HAVE TO GET WOOD THEMSELVES BY GOD. I GUESS THEY LEARNED TO CUT WOOD AS GOOD AS A MAN DOES. OR GO COLD, FREEZE OUT. EITHER THAT MY SISTERS, THEY GOT OUT, THEY GOT �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-THREE MR. D: (CONTINUED) OUT AS QUICK AS THEY COULD. THEY, ONE AT A TIME, WOULD GO. MS. K: WHERE ARE THEY NOW? MR. D: AH, ONE IS IN ARKANSAS, AND THE OTHER ONE, SHE'S IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA, SHE WAS, AND I GOT A COUPLE DOWN HERE IN CANON CITY. THEY WOUND UP AT CANON CITY. CALIFORNIA FOR YEARS. THEY WERE UP IN NEVADA AND ONE'S GOT TWO DAUGHTERS THAT'S GOT DAUGHTERS. MS. K: WELL, CHARLIE, CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? MR. D: WELL, LORI, I DON'T KNOW, ITS A, THAT'S ABOUT ALL THE WOMEN I KNEW. YOU KNOW, I KNEW A LOT OF THEM, BUT THOSE THAT HOMESTEADED, THAT'S THE MAIN THING, YOU KNOW. HOMESTEADED AND STUFF LIKE THAT. ROUGH TIMES. THEM THAT THEY WENT THROUGH PRETTY THEY'D COME IN HERE AND HAD A HUSBAND, WHY, HELL, HE'D MAKE THEM A LIVING. OR SOME DAMN THING. HE'D DO SOMETHING, A MINER WORK IN THE MINES OR WORK ON THE RANCH. RANCH JOBS WAS AWFUL, TOO CHEAP OF WAGES FOR A MARRIED MAN. HE JUST COULDN'T KEEP A FAMILY ON THEM SMALL WAGES. THEY'D GET US FELLOWS FOR THIRTY DOLLARS A MONTH AND OUR BOARD AND ROOM. BY,GOD, THAT WAS IT. AND THEY'D GO ON SATURDAY NIGHT, THEY DIDN'T WANT YOU TO GO ON SATURDAY NIGHT, BUT WE'D ALWAYS GO IN ANYWAY. WE'D GO GET SHAVED AND THEN WE'D GO UP TO CRIPPLE CREEK OR SOMEWHERE AND HAVE A HELL OF A GOOD TIME. �INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE DELL TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE, PAGE THIRTY-FOUR MR. D: (CONTINUED) LAUGHS ...WELL, I GUESS THAT'S ABOUT ALL THE GALS I KNOW, OLD GALS, I KNEW A LOT OF THEM, ALL RIGHT. THE COUNTRY AND HOMESTEAD. MS. K: WELL, THANK YOU, CHARLIE. MR. D: YOU'RE WELCOME. L6V/J- Mini END OF TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE COME TO � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound IIIF Collection Metadata UUID 5c855902-aef6-4cbb-bc61-7406bfa5e0aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 1979 interview with Charlie Dell Subject The topic of the resource Women in rural development; Ranching; Families – History Description An account of the resource Interview with Charlie Dell about family, ranch hand life, his experience meeting Rex Bell and Clara Bow, and life in Guffey, Colorado Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kennedy, Lori Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audiotapes; Oral history interview recorded on audio tape; The interview consists of two audio-cassettes with recordings on both sides of the tape. The digitized interview consist of two files. A transcript does accompany the recording. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-04-14 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dell, Charlie Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted: https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en Relation A related resource Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context oh_Dell_C_01a_1979; oh_Dell_C_01b_1979 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Colorado (state); Park (county); Guffey (inhabited place) Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Park County Local History Archive Oral History Collection IIIF Item Metadata UUID 19deaac5-c988-41dc-a156-478da406055d cowboys Guffey